Salt in a chlorine hot tub

[Cora5]

I went to my local hot tub dealer yesterday and to my surprise they are using salt in their chlorine (@ ease) hot tubs. The dealer mentioned that he cleared this method of sanitation with the manufacture for the five brands that they carry. He showed me a cheatsheet that he gives to his customers when they purchase a spa from him. All of the spas on the floor had salt water in them.

I just wanted to know from the experts here if you have heard or know of this method? I did see the cheatsheet but didn't get a copy of it.

 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I don't see any point in adding salt to a 'traditional' chlorine tub, doesn't make any sense.  Now there are of course Salt Water Systems on the market that PRODUCE both Bromine or Chlorine but those are a part of a complete system where you would not use the @Ease system at that point, I'm not sure why he's "combining" both, doesn't make sense.

 

[bud16415]

I haven’t tried it yet. I think I mentioned once or twice I was going to try it at the end of this water change cycle.

The reason I was going to do it and I use dichlor and bleach method of sanitizing now, is my friend has a salt tub with the no frill aftermarket salt generator system that just makes chlorine and none of the supposed other things that ACE does. I have soaked in his water a couple times and I know all that’s in it is salt and chlorine and the water has a nicer feel to it when in it and also after getting out. So I suppose the dealer is going for the feel and the benefit to the skin of the salt in the water without the cost of the generator system that are built in.

My idea was to try it first just to see what would happen and if the feel to the water would be there. Salt is cheap compared to all these minerals and stuff I see people talking about to improve the feel of the water. This way we could soak in it and get a feel for salt without me dragging a lot of people over to my friends house. I was then going to add a salt generator to my tub as well at some point.

Cora5 if you could get your hands on that information and post it I would love to read thru it. I would also be interested in what manufactures said it was ok. My dealer told me oh if you do that you will rust out your pumps and void your warranty. I think it is baloney but what do I know.     

I also wonder if salt by itself has any sanitizing effect. I always hear how a few ounces of minerals has some effect dissolving slowly over 6 months I would think 10 pounds of salt might do something as well. But I don’t know that as well.

 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I haven’t tried it yet. I think I mentioned once or twice I was going to try it at the end of this water change cycle.

The reason I was going to do it and I use dichlor and bleach method of sanitizing now, is my friend has a salt tub with the no frill aftermarket salt generator system that just makes chlorine and none of the supposed other things that ACE does. I have soaked in his water a couple times and I know all that’s in it is salt and chlorine and the water has a nicer feel to it when in it and also after getting out. So I suppose the dealer is going for the feel and the benefit to the skin of the salt in the water without the cost of the generator system that are built in.

My idea was to try it first just to see what would happen and if the feel to the water would be there. Salt is cheap compared to all these minerals and stuff I see people talking about to improve the feel of the water. This way we could soak in it and get a feel for salt without me dragging a lot of people over to my friends house. I was then going to add a salt generator to my tub as well at some point.

Cora5 if you could get your hands on that information and post it I would love to read thru it. I would also be interested in what manufactures said it was ok. My dealer told me oh if you do that you will rust out your pumps and void your warranty. I think it is baloney but what do I know.     

I also wonder if salt by itself has any sanitizing effect. I always hear how a few ounces of minerals has some effect dissolving slowly over 6 months I would think 10 pounds of salt might do something as well. But I don’t know that as well.

I've been selling saltwater spas since 2009, I can personally say that his statement is complete BS.  It's just simply not true

 

[Cora5]

Bud16415, I will be sure to get a copy of the protocol the next time I visit the dealer. They carry Marquis and bullfrog. I can't recall the other brands but I know that they don't carry Caldera.

 

[Cora5]

The dealer did mention the reason for this protocol was for softening the water.

 

[bud16415]

I've been selling saltwater spas since 2009, I can personally say that his statement is complete BS.  It's just simply not true

I kind of figured that on my own after looking at what the salt concentration is and the corrosive effects of water alone and with the addition of chlorine or bromine. I mentioned to him that it was about what is in human tears and not the ocean and my eyes seem to be doing ok soaking in it for 62 years now. They have a strategy for selling pre-filled dispensing canisters and pool salt doesn’t have the profit margin I’m sure.

I kind of just ended the discussion because I figured if I did switch to salt and had something go in the tub I didn’t want to be blamed for it. With the after market salt generator I could pull it from the tub in 30 seconds and who’s going to know.

So my logic for Cora5 is if it can’t harm anything why not try it and see what you think.

I just might load mine up this week after I see the recommended protocol.       

 

[Sam]

I have seen lots of people who use salt systems destroy their heaters within a year or 2.  Maybe their PH is off too?  Not sure, but my experience with saltwater hot tubs has not been good.

 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I have seen lots of people who use salt systems destroy their heaters within a year or 2.  Maybe their PH is off too?  Not sure, but my experience with saltwater hot tubs has not been good.

yup, mis balanced pH ie acidic water will surely ruin a heater in no time at all, has nothing to do with the salt

 

[Hottubguy]

I have also seen people ruin there tubs with salt systems though I think it was more to do with poor education on how salt systems are suppossed to be used then anything a salt system did. For that matter I have also seen people ruin there hot tubs with chlorine use as well. I think it mainly comes down to educating by your customer on the use of whatever sitter they are using. We have a lot of pool builders in my area that sell salt systems on Pools as a be all end all. Just throw some salt in they say. These same people don’t understand why stuff breaks in 2-3 years on there “brand new pool”

 

[bud16415]

This is kind of the information my dealer gave me about the horrors of adding salt to a spa. I got the example as where we live they dump million of tons of road salt on every winter and why this is called the rust belt. They told me do you want what happens to your car to happen to your spa?

I get a lot of stick but no carrot. I’m not all that familiar of all the inter workings of a spa and the materials all of it are made out of. Nor am I a chemist or metallurgist. But I never seem to get specifics on what salt is alleged to tear up in a tub. I know it eats up my aluminum storm door and my mild steel body on my car if neither is protected. I know salt is formed between a reaction between a strong base and acid and the result is PH neutral.

So if anyone knows exactly what harm salt solution in the low concentration recommended will cause exactly what part or parts of a modern spa to fail. Or what type of improper use of salt could do, or how to prevent that I would love to know? 

I assume you want it dissolved before it goes thru the pump. My friend weighs his salt and puts it in a plastic bucket after filling his tub and heating it. He then fills the bucket with water and sets it on the floor of his tub without any pumps running. He waits a couple hours and comes back to find the salt granules gone. That seemed pretty straightforward.

When I read reviews of aftermarket salt systems they all sound positive and I cant find any where someone advises don’t do it because it ate up my pump or heater. I know once I give it a go and find I have a problem salt related I will shout it from the roof tops.

I just would like some solid information on it.     

 

[Cora5]

Bud14615, How long have your friend had his salt generator setup on his spa? Has he had any major issues with parts failing prematurely?

Hotspring has been successful with their setup with the exception of the ACE cell going out on average every two years if I recall correctly. It would be nice if other hot tub manufactures would offer salt water spas to customers. I can image that a lot of people prefer these over chlorine and bromine.

 

[bud16415]

Bud14615, How long have your friend had his salt generator setup on his spa? Has he had any major issues with parts failing prematurely?

Hotspring has been successful with their setup with the exception of the ACE cell going out on average every two years if I recall correctly. It would be nice if other hot tub manufactures would offer salt water spas to customers. I can image that a lot of people prefer these over chlorine and bromine.

My friend has a Marquis tub and adapted it to salt with the first gen Saltron mini. I know this because he is an electrician and he built his own timer unit because the timer wasn’t built into the first units. I think His has to be going for at least 5 years now maybe more. He replaced his anode about a year ago and they are under 100 bucks. He’s had no salt related problems.

He unplugs his anode once a month and puts it in a jar of vinegar. I think the newer ones do a reverse polarity thing and are more less self cleaning. The vinegar is pretty simple though.

The only drawback to this type is when you open the tub you pull the anode out of your tub and stick it in a little holder and you have to remember to toss it back in. about the same work as taking your floating dispenser for bromine out.

At this point I really have almost zero fear adding salt to any spa.   

 

[Cora5]

I have the protocol, note that this is specifically for the Marquis The Show 475 gallon spa . The only time salt is added to the spa is on a fresh fill. The spa chemicals are either Spa guard or leisure time. I can't recall which. My bad... ???

        * Startup/Fresh fill *

- Add 3 caps of PH and alkalinity increaser(red)
- Add 1 1/2 caps of spa shock oxidizer (blue)
- Add 1 jumpstart chlorine package
- Add 5 cups of spa salt
- Add the @ease inline mineral cartridge, this is changed out every 4 months
- Add the @ease silver chlorine cartridge set it to 3 - 4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  * Weekly
- Check PH and alkalinity & adjust if needed
- Add 1 1/2 caps spa shock oxidizer (blue)

                  * Monthly
- Spray off filter with garden hose
- Check silver chlorine cartridge and replace when empty

                * Every 4 months
- Replace blue frog mineral cartridge
- Drain spa and refill through the filter

                * Every 6 months
- Soak filter in filter cleaner overnight

                * Every 12 months
- Replace filter with new ones

 

[Hottubguy]

I have the protocol, note that this is specifically for the Marquis The Show 475 gallon spa . The only time salt is added to the spa is on a fresh fill. The spa chemicals are either Spa guard or leisure time. I can't recall which. My bad... ???

        * Startup/Fresh fill *

- Add 3 caps of PH and alkalinity increaser(red)
- Add 1 1/2 caps of spa shock oxidizer (blue)
- Add 1 jumpstart chlorine package
- Add 5 cups of spa salt
- Add the @ease inline mineral cartridge, this is changed out every 4 months
- Add the @ease silver chlorine cartridge set it to 3 - 4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  * Weekly
- Check PH and alkalinity & adjust if needed
- Add 1 1/2 caps spa shock oxidizer (blue)

                  * Monthly
- Spray off filter with garden hose
- Check silver chlorine cartridge and replace when empty

                * Every 4 months
- Replace blue frog mineral cartridge
- Drain spa and refill through the filter

                * Every 6 months
- Soak filter in filter cleaner overnight

                * Every 12 months
- Replace filter with new ones

What if your ph is high out of your tap?  What if you have a lot of minerals?  Every bodies source water is different which is why you can’t have a magic recipe for everybody upon fill

 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Bud14615, How long have your friend had his salt generator setup on his spa? Has he had any major issues with parts failing prematurely?

Hotspring has been successful with their setup with the exception of the ACE cell going out on average every two years if I recall correctly. It would be nice if other hot tub manufactures would offer salt water spas to customers. I can image that a lot of people prefer these over chlorine and bromine.

There is more manufacturers coming on-board as soon as next year, they simply can't ignore the fact that people who are offering it are kicking the crap out of competition assuming its sold/serviced/and the customer is properly informed.  I can't believe the people out their that "fight" that fact, it's crazy....in general 3-4% of the population in the United States owns a Hot Tub and it's not like that number has grown in the last 20 years, so how do you open up to a broader spectrum of customers? ummm how about innovating something once in awhile and that is exactly what salt does, it brings new buyers onto the market who never even considered a spa before, and I have 3 solid years of numbers that back up that statement, currently 65% of our hot tubs that go out for delivery get a salt system....I don't need Warren Buffets business acumen to realize that is a very positive sign now and moving forward.

 

[Cora5]

I knew this method had its draw backs. After having a year to decide on which sanitation method to go with. I have decided that I am definitely going with a chlorine generator. This method seems to offer a more simplistic means of keeping things in check.

 

[Cora5]

Bud14615, How long have your friend had his salt generator setup on his spa? Has he had any major issues with parts failing prematurely?

Hotspring has been successful with their setup with the exception of the ACE cell going out on average every two years if I recall correctly. It would be nice if other hot tub manufactures would offer salt water spas to customers. I can image that a lot of people prefer these over chlorine and bromine.

There is more manufacturers coming on-board as soon as next year, they simply can't ignore the fact that people who are offering it are kicking the crap out of competition assuming its sold/serviced/and the customer is properly informed.  I can't believe the people out their that "fight" that fact, it's crazy....in general 3-4% of the population in the United States owns a Hot Tub and it's not like that number has grown in the last 20 years, so how do you open up to a broader spectrum of customers? ummm how about innovating something once in awhile and that is exactly what salt does, it brings new buyers onto the market who never even considered a spa before, and I have 3 solid years of numbers that back up that statement, currently 65% of our hot tubs that go out for delivery get a salt system....I don't need Warren Buffets business acumen to realize that is a very positive sign now and moving forward.

BullFrogSpasMN

You should sit on the board for some of these manufacturers. They've got their heads up their you know what. This is an excellent observation which I believe to be true. That is why I have to decided to go ahead and purchase a chlorine generator when I get my spa. If I'm willing to pay $13,000 for a spa, I want to enjoy it the way I see fit.

 

[bud16415]

Cora

Thanks for posting the info.

 

[Cora5]

Cora

Thanks for posting the info.

You're welcome Bud. Let us know when you switch over to a chlorine generator. I'm sure it will work out just fine for you.