Question to buyers and customers

[stuart]

I have a question brought on by a post I read from Chas on another topic;

How many of you that have bought or are buying truly believe someone when they tell you they are giving a discount of $1000 or more on a spa? I'm not saying that they are not I just want to know the confidence level from a customers side.

Consequently, I would also like to know your feelings towards a lesser offer like a $200 to $800 discount.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if someone can, at the drop of a hat, knock $2000 off of a spa then I have to wonder just how much of a markup they really have, including the chemicals I will have to buy later? In our store we keep our margins very fair for both customer and us, meaning that we make enough money to provide the service at a level they would expect and still stay in business without "gouging" them on price.

No one sells at full retail, that I know of, unless it is perhaps Thermo but every now and then I hear someone say they bought elsewhere because the guy gave them thousands off on a new spa because he was running a special, my guess is he was quoting a “made up retail”. Does this mean that he overcharges everyone else by thousands?

There are real reasons for price drops that include demos, blems, volume discounts for special sales and even factory incentive sales but as far as I know NO ONE can offer thousands off on every spa purchase and survive!

 

[bulmer4nc]

I considered my buying experience very much like buying a car.  Sundance was offering their $2000 off special but I think if I went back to that same dealer today I could buy the same Spa for around the same price.  On the weekend we purchased, he did drop the price a bit more (cost of the ozonator and lifter I think).   I think his 'discount' was probably around what he gives everyone.  In this case it just started off with using Sundance's deal as a baseline.

I honestly can't see anyone spending the $10,000 or so 'sticker' price on the spa that we purchased.  He basically told me that the 'incentives' at any one time usually come out to about the same.  Sometimes it's right off the base price and sometimes its in the form of 'extras'.  In any case I definitely don't feel our dealer was trying to do any 'gouging' and didn't feel he was hiding anything or trying to mislead us about the price he was offering.  In the end we were very happy with our purchase experience and would recommend our dealer to anyone.

 

[empolgation]

The short answer...
a discount of $1000 or more = an exagerated price mark up of $2000 or more == sales tactic that I am not willing to support. There is the exception of those real reasons that you mention... demos and blems and such.

(I believe it has been determined that I am not the average sheepish consumer)

 

[stuart]

So to add to my question, do you feel that if a dealer offers you a spa at $500 off vs $2000 off he's holding out on you or would you feel that his spas are already fairly priced? If you've been shopping and everyone came down over $1000 except one dealer would you walk because all of the others you've been to played a price game and this guy didn't?

I had a customer that I dropped the spa considerably below margin recently because he gave me a credible reason to do so, he came in with the names, phone numbers and address of 6 people that he knew to be shopping for spas! He was a realtor and these where all clients of his, we've already sold 3 of them! I can write his discount off as an advertising cost as he's saving me that money so it's a win win for both of us!

 

[shoemaker]

I shopped at 4 different places and 4 different brands. None of them offered me $1000 off the price.

They all offered to take something off the price or "throw" in some extras.

If a dealer told me he could knock off a thousand or two thousand, I would assume that the original price was inflated to begin with. But that's just me.

Remember, I am not a dealer and I haven't played one on TV !

 

[Vinny]

Stuart,

I actually shopped opposite of what you stated.

I wanted to know the price of the spa and what it had in it. I couldn't care if the spa "retailed" for more but wanted to compare apples to apples so to speak.

Actually my local Sundance and Hot Springs dealers told me I was getting "what a deal" and gave me a list price and a selling price. I was turned off by this. I actually "helped"  the Sundance dealer make a sale (I bought my AG pool from him) by talking him up to a customer that was waffling and I don't think he gave me such a "special" price as he said he was going to.

I picked the tub I did based on what I got for my money. It wasn't the cheapest (I could have bought a few for about $400 less), although it is a secondary line I felt after talking to the dealer as though it will perform as well as a primary line of other brands.

 

[empolgation]

So to add to my question, do you feel that if a dealer offers you a spa at $500 off vs $2000 off he's holding out on you or would you feel that his spas are already fairly priced? If you've been shopping and everyone came down over $1000 except one dealer would you walk because all of the others you've been to played a price game and this guy didn't?

$500 off is more creadible... but if his spas were truly "already fairly priced" he shouldn't be able to reduce $500, maybe throw in some chemicals and duckies... As you've shown there can be good reasons to give such a price break - though the reason will be clear to the customer as well as the dealer. In general, the less $$ off the spa the more creadible the "deal" (assuming no special circumstance and that the customer is somewhat educated, as in knowing that $500 off is not really $1500 overpriced).

If everyone but one dealer "came down" $1000 I would not walk from that dealer because everyone else played the price game, I would consider buying from him if he had the tub that I wanted.

 

[Lori]

I have to say I was lucky!  The 3 dealers I ended up seriously looking at (one closed a week after the wet test, which was my first) all gave me a fair price for their product.  No one said they would knock off $$$$, they all included the same basic options (lifter, ozone, start up chems...etc.) and were within a few hundred dollars of each other.  

I like to think that I was an informed consumer.  I asked a lot of questions.  I asked each one about the competition.  No one bad mouthed anyone.  I really think they all wanted me to be happy with my purchase.  I like to think that everyone in the industry in my area were fairly priced, without me having to do any work of negotiating!  I have to do that every day at work!

 

[mhraracing]

Stuart - No I would not believe a spa dealer if they offered me this or wouldnt feel too good about them if they did. I think the tatic of "I will knock $2000 off the price if you buy it right now" works with the uneducated spa buyer.
Let me give you and example....To go with your other post about home show and fairs, My wife and I decided to buy a spa late this summer. We had been toying with the idea - but decided now was the right time. We waited to start our seach at our local (Big E) fair becuause we knew there would be many different makes and models to compare and learn.  
Boy - can I tell you what a mistake that was ..... We spent all day looking at spas - but we learned alot.
We learned what dealers/spas to AVOID. One company - Elite Spas by Spa Depot dicounted a spa after 20 mins of talking by $2,000 - even showing us "other"  customers price sheets where he charged them the higher price. He even pulled out a binder full of "other" dealers spas to show us how their spa was superior. Did I believe him...somewhat - because he had pictures...but for the novice its tough to tell what spa is what by a picture or two.
Are saving grace was meeting the nice people from American Leisure who showed us quality spas from Saratoga and Sundance and didnt give us the pitch of "buy it now for $2000 less"  - it was then we learned what to start looking for. Its too bad we went to them last and they wound up being too far away from us for the conveinence factor. ( I actaually think they are on this site sometimes) - So the bottom line is......I feel this tatic will work on the un-educated spa buyer (who doesnt frequent this site) and NO to educated buyer.

Edit - it was elite spas by spa depot.

 

[ndabunka]

Stuart - My recommendation is that you price "aggressively" from the start and then don't waive much at in in any additional discounts. The infortunate truth is that many spa dealers are more like car salesman than anything thing else (not the dealer's on here of course, but rather the competition down the street). If the MSRP is $8,999 and you can make $2K selling it for $7,200, then I recommend that you do not "TRY" to get $7,900 from one buyer and then $7,500 from another but rather offer the unit at $7,200 for all. If your feeling particularily generous, give "maybe" another $200 off to get them to buy it that day. Consumers don't really buy off of "how much the discount is" but rather buy off of "what the value" is to other competitors out there. In example... The SunDance Cameo and the Jacuzzi J375 are pretty darn close relatives. When I was shopping I was willing to spend a little more for the Sundance ($700) to get certain features (Jets, filters, bubblers) but the dealer was trying to get "every penny" he could out of what he thought was a "sucker".  Being in a form of sales myself I even "gave away" my hand by telling him what I was "willing" to apy him for his Cameo (the fair street price at the time of $7,200). He stated that the tub was a real of $8,900 and that he was "doing me a favor" by selling it to me at $7,900 or $1K off.  Of course, this was the same amount he was offering the unit for sale in the paper so in real life, he wasn't offering me anything different than he offered anyone else. I also learned later that he had not sold a tub in mearly two months at that point.  After I informed him of my purchase decision J370 for $6500 INCLUDING stereo (not part of the Cameo $7,200 deal), he quickly started discounting in an effort to get me to call up the Jacuzzi dealer and cancel my order. Amazingly enough he agreed to the original $7,200 deal at this point.  Needless to say, I told him where he could stick his Cameo...

 

[newtotubbing]

When I went shopping, the 4 spas that I wanted to buy was either the HS, D1, the Jac or the Sundance.  

The D1 dealer gave me the creeps, (pool, patio, pool table dealer, spas last) and it was like he was doing me a favor spending time showing me his spas. Only 2 spas had water in them, and he really didn't sound like he was willing to fill the 2 I liked.  He told me his prices on the 2 I liked and said they are firm, too much IMHO.  No wet test for me.

Wet tested a few Sundances from a highly reputable pool and spa dealer.  After that, the Sundance salesman showed me a flyer on a recently expired promo and told me he would give it to me even though the sale was over a few weeks ago.   Mind you, this promo wasn't any thing to shake a stick at, about $900-$1000  higher than I wanted to pay based on numbers from this forum.  I knew he could come lower but refused to do so at that time.  He would probably do so if I came back again, ready to haggle some more.

The Jacuzzi dealer, was mainly a pool dealer but had a few spas in their  "showroom" if you could call it that.  All were empty and didn't look like they would ever be filled except for one.  This  one had been drained, not completely, mind you, the seats had water left in them, with ugly green water with dead flies in it.      Nice!  :-X       This dealer listed the prices on a card next to each spa.  About $900 more than the comparable Sundance (if there is one).  I asked if they move on the price and was to told no way, these are the best prices and Jacuzzi is the best spa built, much better than Sundance in all respects.  "You know that Jacuzzi owns Sundance....", they told me.  :-/  I knew that and also knew that the Sundance was a better spa IMHO.  This is debated, but I think most agree with my thought on this if prices are equal on both spas.  No way am I wet testing their spas if they leave them in that condition.  Disgusting.        Left his store and went to wet test HS and Caldera a few days later.

Tested a few of them at a dealer who only sells spas,  HS, Caldera, hot spot and Tiger River out of 3 stores.  Plaques on the walls, "Service Dealer of the Year", year after year, blah, blah, blah. After testing, the owner of the store laid out his selling price including all of the necessary "extras" on the models I was interested in and said this was his price and what he sells it for all the time.  Floor models were cheaper but he was not ready to sell them yet.   I saw a few invoices on his desk when he left the area to get my daughter a cup of water and that was the price he sold 2 others for.  His price was a few of hundred dollars higher than most on this forum but not totally out of line.  I also asked him to show me the list price which he did without a problem.  Big difference in price without me having to haggle or feel like he was going out of his way to give me the promo price or any 'Special Deal'.  The price was reasonable and I really liked the HS Vista and Grandee.  

I do not like to monkey around with price on anything.  If I have to haggle and work for it, then I will go elsewhere.  Give me a fair price up front, save me the trouble of the haggle and I will be a happy soaker.

I am now going to soak in my HS Vista  : . I never went back to haggle with the Sundance dealer, too much work, I wanted to buy a spa to relax, not to haggle.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  

Jonathan

 

[poolboy34]

I guess i'll weigh in here.

As someone who's in the pool & spa biz I hear or read things from time to time that make my skin crawl.  One is the "buy today and save 2000$" sales tactic.  Now normally this is usually used at shows/fair events or by unethical dealers.  We, however, have firm prices on all of our spas that are either at or slightly belowmthe national average for the brands we sell.  If you look back at what our customers pay for a particular model you would see that they all pay the same for that selected model.  Whether they buy iy in the showrrom or at one of the two show events we run each year.  the only time we put deep discounts on a spa is for one of two reasons: One being if it is a scratch & dent model, and Two if we decide to stop carrying a particular brand for some reason and want to get rid of our stock of that brand quickly.  That's it.  We believe in taking care of our customers before, during and after the sale (which is the most important).  And we must be doing something right if Dimension One has named us their national dealer of the year for customer service and sales two years running.

 

[xrdirthead]

I think price should be the last thing to consider when making a major purchase like this. Find the tub you like the most from a dealer your comfortable with and then do the "price grind" thing. I'm sure the dealer wants to make a sale as much as you want it in your yard.

Think about the car you drove out of the dealership and lost 10k to 15k  in value by leaving the parking lot.  Maybe I shouldn't drag cars into this but I wanted to compare it something we all use on a daily basis.

Life is short...spoil yourself while you still can!

 

[Alan]

It would take a believeable story for me to accept the validity of a$1000 discount.   If your showroom was full, a customer special ordered a spa, put 10% down, then in the coming weeks had something major like suddenly having to move out of town and he willingly gave up his deposit, would you reduce the price $1000 if you didn't have any place to store it?

 

[Brewman]

Our dealer pretty much sticks to their price tags, from what I've observed over the years I've been going there to buy chems. and filters.  They occasionally have a sale, but it's maybe a couple hundred off.  They also offer long term no interest financing.
If someone offers me a deal to reduce the price by $2000 if I buy right now, I'd be very suspect.  
There is no real competition in my area between Sundance dealers, one shop has a lock on this area- lots of dealers, but all owned by the same corporation.
But there is plenty of representation between brands out here, to keep someone from being too over priced.
Brewman

 

[HotTubMan]

I thought I would offer a discount scenario. When we get our factory discount for our bi-annual parking lot event, combined with the expectation of higher volume for the event, we would offer $1000-$1500 off. Adjusting for exchange this translates to:$815-$1220 off.

Nothing slimy or deceptive about it. Coleman offers us a discount expecting good sales for the event, we do the same. The rusult is approximately 13% for the consumer.

I do dislike the fact that near the end of the sale, I end up sounding like one of those "other guys". Saying "This is offer is only good until the end of the weekend...." but in this case its true!

 

[stuart]

The response on this topic has been great! Concise, on topic, and very detailed. This is the info I was looking for. The two biggest culprits in our area for deceptive pricing are the CalSpa dealer and The Arctic dealer.....They do get sales off of doing that but I have a problem with it. IMO, I believe that most people are better educated than that but it's frustrating to run into those that buy into it!

We are very fair with how we price and the one thing we might have a tendency to do is price the spa with the options, sell the value of the options and then throw them in as a closing tool but even at that I have to control salespeople to not get greedy with a customer. For the most part though my crew shares the ethics of my wife and I. Funny the last employee that I had that seemed to try and "gouge" the customer on price didn't like the parameters that we put on him and went to work for the CalSpa dealer!

Thanks again

 

[Drifter]

My thoughts are by the time your ready to buy you should have a pretty good idea what the market place has to offer. Which means, you should be able to compare the different brands and features and options against other brands and make an informed decision. He's a great example of what I mean. Lets suppose your in the new car market and have a trade in. The sticker price is 30k. One dealer tells you he'll sell you the new car for 28k and give you 4k for your trade. Another dealer tells you car is 30k but I'll give you 6k for your trade. Tax consequences aside, your getting the same thing. All retailers are the same. You should make your decision based upon whether you feel you are getting your monies worth. Is what you are buying worth "X" amount of dollars? The market and your "education" about the product should be your guide!

 

[zzaphod42]

Something that I don't feel has been taken into consideration is that, with few exceptions, the people who have used this forum and other sources to gather info, in addition to spending time at the daelerships and wet testing, are most definitely SMART shoppers.

Unfortunately, many people spend a bare minimum amount of time looking, and buy because they see something that looks/sounds really neat, whether it be 7 hp pumps, 150 jets, or that $2999.00 price tag.

If little to no time is spent looking at hot tubs, and somebody walks in to hear about an amazing deal "this weekend only!" they may choose to look no further.

There are a lot of people who don't spend a lot of time, so to them hearing big pumps, lots of jets, at a really low price "today only" sounds great.

If you don't believe me just think about the number of people who choose to wet test your tubs before buying. Probably not a large percentage if I had to guess. I always mention/emphasize wet testing before buying, but am rarely taken up on the idea.

Just some ramblings from a man looking to fill his last hour till home time.

Joe

 

[wetone]

Great topic.

IMO people shop differently at different stores, based on the advertising that a store does.

Example A.
I come into your store because of the “save thousands of dollars” advertising and ask the salesperson what’s the best deal on a hot tub, he/she shows me a model or two and my main concern is price. Finally find a size I like, it’s the best deal in town, this model normally lists at 7,995 but today he/she can sell it to me for 4,995 I would probably say “Hot Deal” I’ll take it.


Example B.
I come into your store because of advertising that promoted the benefits of owning a spa. I introduce myself, ask the salespersons name and proceed to tell him/her what I'm looking for allowing him/her to ask questions and finally showing me the spa he/she feels best meets my needs/wants, than presents the benefits of owning that spa concluding the presentation with the price and an invitation to own it today, if I am ready, I would buy from this store.

The difference is the customer in example A would rarely buy from an example B store because price is most important.

The customer in example B would not buy from an example A store, because value, quality and service is more important than just the price.  

My 3CDN cents worth