How do dealers test water?

[drewstar]

It's been brought up in many different threads throughout this board that one should bring thier water into the dealer for testing.

I am curious what method/equipment/tools/test different dealers use to test the water?

Do you use a test strip? A taylor re-agent kit, or some other method to test the water?

The dealer closest to us provides a print out of the water chemistry as well as a laundry list of chems we should use, and based on our tub size and the water results exactly what and how much should be added to the tub.  (I can see how this is a good sales tool as well. The dealer can sell the chemicals based on the official looking printout without too much question/doubt from the consumer).

My wife swears she saw the dealer use a large test strip to test the water, and then punched the data into the computer to get the print out. I was a bit disapointed to learn this, as I had imagined the dealer having some fancy smancey gas fired turbo charged chromography  dooh-hicky.

So dealers, what do you use?

 

[Brewman]

Not a dealer, but I do watch when they test my water.
They have some sort of electronic anlyzer which interfaces with a PC & Printer.  
They use what looks like a vacuum powered syringe/squirt gun to suck up water from my sample bottle, then use this "squirt gun" to fill several plastic rectanular shaped vials, each sealed with a certain color foil.  The syringe thing pokes thru the foil seal and puts a quantity of water in the vials.  Each vial in turn is inserted into a square hole in the tester machine, then they push a button.  
After that's all done, they print me out a fairly detailed sheet with my water analysis, what chemicals are needed and the correct quantity to add, etc.

All in all, a pretty elaborate looking system.  This dealer sells mainly Baqua Spa and Brilliance (bromine), both made by the same company, and the tester is labeled with that companies name.

 

[Vinny]

When I was researching info for my pool, I came acrross a pool forum and the moderator there said NEVER trust an automated testing machine's info. He swore by the drop test method.

Most dealers by me use an automated system but when I went to Leslies Pool Supplies they use drop test. I believe my dealer uses the drop test method.

Quite honestly though, after testing water for a while now (first pool and now pool/spa), I can't see a reason to have a dealer test your water. I guess if you have a strange thing happening to the water but other than TDS, a Taylor kit does a great job.

 

[East_TX_Spa]

This was taking up space in the store up until 2 days ago.  I never could get the test station to communicate with the laptop so one of them had to go!

Terminator

 

[drewstar]

Term

can you tell us more about the Pinpoint testing station? Is this what you use? Or since you had problems, what do you use?  Can you tell us how it works?

 

[ramdom]

My dealer gets this thing with a bunch of stuff then he whips it all up. He gets this drippy whatch-a-ma-call-it and puts it in the jars. Then these things spin around and things go *DING!*. He has this spoon that shakes like a poodle. He wears a rubber mask and a purple coat. He cries the whole time...

 

[East_TX_Spa]

Term

can you tell us more about the Pinpoint testing station? Is this what you use? Or since you had problems, what do you use?  Can you tell us how it works?

Only for you amigo!

Pre-packaged vials of powdered agents are inserted into trays.  These vials test sanitizer levels, pH, TA, CH, and for levels of Copper and Iron.  A device that looks like a turkey baster on steroids is used to extract a sample of the customer's water which is then placed into the colorimeter to get a base reading.  Then, the customer's water is inserted into each of the vials and they are, in turn, placed into the colorimeter to check the water chemistry for the customer.

When everything is sailing along, the information is downloaded into a program on the computer and a printout is generated to advise the customer on how to proceed.

However, I've come to the conclusion that it is simply overkill.  Water care is very, very, very simple.  Who provides these test kits to the dealers?  Lo and behold, the chemical manufacturers, imagine that.  The pool guy down the road is happy to do a printout and a list of about $100 worth of chemicals to make your water more NATURAL.

I've had folks come in here completely flustered at having to dump bottle after bottle of chems in their spa and still having cloudy water when, after talking to me, they found all they needed to do was replace their 10 year old filter.

I'm in business to sell spas and help people save their hard-earned money, not sell them a bunch of chemical crap they don't need.

Terminator

 

[socal]

personally, i use the midget method. its very similar to the old "which trials".
step 1, dunk a midget. if he floats, everything is fine. if he sinks, low sanitizer  ;D

oh, did i mention he was holding a test strip  ;D

(no midgets were ever hurt during the testing process)

and for all those that might not see any humor in this, my appologies.

 

[lawdawgva]

I started with test strips but I could never and I mean NEVER get them to work.  I couldn't tell if it was closer to "this shade" or "that shade".  Half the time the colors would run together and turn the pad some horrible shade that wasn't even on the comparison chart on the bottle. I had tried two different brands of strips and yes, they were in date.

So, now I am using a drop reagent test kit and it works great for me.  For some reason I can distinguish the colors a lot better than the strips.  It only takes a  few minutes to check everything, TA,  CH, PH and CL so not a big deal there.  Sometimes I'll jot down my results and then take a sample to my dealer to let them run it through their fancy schmancy domajig water tester and it is always within a few points so that makes me feel better.  To those of you who use strips successfully, my hat's off to you!

-Sarge

 

[Brewman]

That pinpoint thing sounds exactly like what the dealer uses where I bought my spa, and also the dealer where I get my chemicals.  
I disagree that either of these places use the printout to sell me more chemicals.  Most often, the only thing that'll be off is my alk or Ph, and the printout suggests amounts of what product to add to balance the water.
When I gave them plain tap water to test, the printout was very helpful as it told me how much Ph decrease I'd need to add to get my alk readings into range.

I also dislike test strips- I have the same problems interpreting them, so I use the liquid tests.  Plus I find the liquid kit is a bit cheaper than those strips.

 

[J._McD]

Test strips are "guesstimates" of up, down, more or less.

Test kits with reagents are not much better and are a bit more imtimidating to the consumer, who is easily confused when he is trying to seek a solution to a problem without dialogue and interaction.  Again, it will give you "color" that will indicate up, down, more or less.

Shophisticated, computer analyzers require an "investement" and the supplies are "depleted" requiring a new aquisition of supplies, but does in fact produce a detailed computer generated printout suggesting the solution to your problems that seems much more consumer friendly.  

Surpisingly though, the first two methods seem to lead to the same solution without the computer generated print out that produces a detailed recommendations and a recommended purchase list prior to leaving the store.  This recommended purchase seems to offset the cost of equipment and supplies needed for FREE water testing.

All three systems lead to the same conclusion and solution.  However, human nature as it is, has us all looking for the simplest way, which may be going into the dealer for a FREE water analysis.  This way, we can find out what to buy.  Reagents and test strips do in fact cost something to replace, having it done for you is FREE.

As for the sophisticated water analysis, the water testing laboratory at the dealership is not what I would consider sterile and certainly could be influenced by previous water samples, thus the reason for some to have "sterile" test packets to produce a more accurate or true understanding analysis.

Basically, there are only three choices; test strips, test reagents, and the dealer.  The first two methods don't bring you into the store.

Which one is best for you, or for that matter which one is best for the dealer, if you are color blind and some of us are, the FREE on of course.

 

[drewstar]

J-McD,

I agree. and although I am enjoying th thread quite a bit, I didn't intend for it to be  a "is the dealer just tring to get us into the shop tp take our money?"

I had hoped to learn more about the equipment and how it works and differs than what consuers have available.

As i said, my wife swears one dealer is using some sort of mega test striip. Is this possible? Is this normal?

 

[East_TX_Spa]

Brewman and drewstar, please don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying everyone is just trying to pick your pocket.  I'm just saying I have had customers come in with over $100 worth of water clarifier, metal remover, water freshener, pH buffer, pipe cleaner, etc when all they needed to do is buy a new filter.  Water testing is great if you just really want to know what's in your water, but most folks just like cheap and simple, which I believe proper water care should be.

Terminator

 

[Brewman]

I agree- cheap and simple is right up my alley.  

But it is fun to watch them run that tester, and I do like the computer printouts.
It's the digit head in me.  I'm an ITS geek from way back.    The report gives readings for sanitizer, alk, Ph, metals, hardness, and TDS, if I recall.  
I could easily get along without the service- and usually do.  I only get my water tested a couple times per year by them- otherwise I do it myself.  
No doubt that in some cases this could be used to over sell product, but I won't let that happen.

 

[orlandoguy]

I have given up my crazed obsession with perfectly balanced water after reading a great article which said most of it is grossly exaggerated and the limits can be raised with absolutely no harm to the user or spa.

I also realized that half the people preaching water chemistry probably gargled and showered in water this morning that they wouldn't put in their dog's bowl if they knew what was in it.

 

[East_TX_Spa]

Amen!

Terminator

 

[J._McD]

J-McD,

I agree. and although I am enjoying th thread quite a bit, I didn't intend for it to be  a "is the dealer just tring to get us into the shop tp take our money?"

I had hoped to learn more about the equipment and how it works and differs than what consuers have available.

As i said, my wife swears one dealer is using some sort of mega test striip. Is this possible? Is this normal?

Not to be misunderstood, I did not mean to imply the dealer is in it for the money, although he does need to cover cost and even make a reasonable profit for doing so.  Frankly, the majority of dealers enjoy their customers coming in and do offer it as a free service, they really view it as a necessary nusiance, as well as, a PIA.  The fact that it makes money is of course what he is in business for.

However, it is even more amazing how many people can not seem to accomplish this simple task for themselves with the dip strips or reagents, but then it is a fact that some are color blind and justifiable do require assistance.  They simply come in looking for someone to help them understand what they do need.  As we all know, water chemistry can be very intimidating, confusing and sometimes impossible.  

Time, experience and patience are the best tools here.  The worst category of testers are the engineers, now don't go off on me just yet, they are very exacting, expecting immediate results and expect precise reactions and measurements.  In other words, they lack patience.  

BTW, you can get Aquacheck pool & spa test strips at Sam's (bottle count 25) for $12.88, or for bromine for $14.44, or you can stop in at your local dealer and pick up a bottle of 50 count for $10.95 to $12.95.  It is not like they are getting rich on you though.

 

[Danny]

Socal, I hear monkeys work just as well as midgets for testing purposes, without the union overhead.  Just watch out for PETA.

 

[Danny]

I forgot to mention, I use the test and guess method.  Test, then if any chemicals are needed guess the amount you need.  Depending on the difference in color, more or less equates to what I add.  It seems to be working so far.  No rashes, or third arms and the water is crystal clear.

 

[PaulMc]

 I too have a tough time distinguishing the colours on the test strips some times. Especially when it's -20. I can get things close and (knock on wood) I've been lucky at doing small changes to modify the alk and ph when the colour strips look out of whack.

 I went in to the dealer Tuesday and had a reading as I hadn't been in for a month and a half and was starting to wonder how I've been doing. He printed the test results and gave me a big A+ and circled it so I could hang it on the fridge. Best mark I ever brought home.

 He asked if I got my discount coupon for their chemical and filter sale in the mail, which I did. It will save me 15-25% for supplies so I'll buy close to a years worth I imagine. He said that'll save me some money. I mentioned I thought I might be able to get things cheaper on the net or elsewhere than his normal pricing but if I did he may not be around for me when I have questions or problems. He and his two co-workers just smiled. So did I.  Now that's a nice relationship to have. paul