Hot Springs Sovereign Question

[woodchopper]

  Hello, I've been reading this forum for a while and have learned a lot . Now I have a question about my Sovereign that has sit without being used for about seven years.
Last year I tried filling it and using it and ran into a problem with it not turning on or heating the water. I called customer service and they suggested a new heater because the digital display was flashing when I tried to use it.
At their suggestion I bought a new heater and am currently in the process of changing it out. I ran out of sunlight and energy last night so that's why I didn't finish the job yet.
My question is if you people think it was my heater that went belly up or could it possibly be the box that holds all the electronics has a problem ? I'm sure I'm not the first person to run into this problem.
I cleaned the inside this past weekend and it looks to be in usable shape. After reading a few threads on the subject I intend to change out the filters which are original and use chlorine instead of the Baqua Spa brand chemicals I was using before.
Any input on this project would be greatly appreciated. I'm really hoping someone here thinks this spa will live again. Thanks !!!

 

[Spacepuppy]

Hello, I am new here but I possibly have something to add, I worked as a manager at a HS dealer for 6 years and probably sold the same model "spa" you have. As I remember the red light would start blinking for several reasons for instance your circulation pump may have a little bit of crusty build up from sitting and the impeller may not be turning so you have no water flowing through the heating element ant this trips your high limit thermistor, or you could have very clogged filters paticularly a clogged filter on the grey standpipe will inhibit the water flow and cause the same result, both of these could cause a blinking red light and both are pretty easy fixes compared to replacing a heater, I hope you went through some diagnostic questoning with a service tech before they just said you need a heater and sold you an expensive part. During my time with HS I dont think I ever had a customer need the control panel replaced, I believe it was call the IQ 2020 at the time and the IQ 2000 before that, but it wasent uncommon for the thermistors to go bad I seem to remember a year where they had a bad batch and we were replaceing them left and right for a time.

 

[woodchopper]

Hello, I am new here but I possibly have something to add, I worked as a manager at a HS dealer for 6 years and probably sold the same model "spa" you have. As I remember the red light would start blinking for several reasons for instance your circulation pump may have a little bit of crusty build up from sitting and the impeller may not be turning so you have no water flowing through the heating element ant this trips your high limit thermistor, or you could have very clogged filters paticularly a clogged filter on the grey standpipe will inhibit the water flow and cause the same result, both of these could cause a blinking red light and both are pretty easy fixes compared to replacing a heater, I hope you went through some diagnostic questoning with a service tech before they just said you need a heater and sold you an expensive part. During my time with HS I dont think I ever had a customer need the control panel replaced, I believe it was call the IQ 2020 at the time and the IQ 2000 before that, but it wasent uncommon for the thermistors to go bad I seem to remember a year where they had a bad batch and we were replaceing them left and right for a time.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question Spacepuppy. It was a factory Hot Springs customer service rep that told me it was probably a heater. When I went to where I bought it to buy the heater the service guy said HS had upgraded the heater three times since I bought the tub.
Once the heater is out both the pumps would be easy to remove if you think I should check the impeller for build up. I'm pretty sure the three filters can be cleaned by putting them in the dishwasher but they LOOK clean and the spa worked fine before I drained it. It would be nice if I could hook up a hose to one of the drains below the compartment to backflush the tub and check for leaks before I fill the tub and see if it works.
If I have a bad thermistor is it something I could check or change myself ? Thanks for the info on the control panel. I imagine if anything breaks on that it'd be a very expensive fix. Thanks for your help.

 

[Spacepuppy]

if I am not mistaken given that your tub is more than 7 years old you probably have the Silent Flo 5000 citculation pump and that pump dosent have a shaft driven impeller so if you take the top off of the pump the impeller is just kinda sitting there in a stainless steel cup with the top containing the other half of this "cup" and the whole thing is sealed with 1 large O ring seal taking this apart and cleaning it should be an easy job.

lol but I have to stress that I have been out of the business for some time now and I think there are great resources on the web for finding parts and breakdown diagrams for this spa and I think you should also look at those diagrams before you take anything apart.

 

[woodchopper]

if I am not mistaken given that your tub is more than 7 years old you probably have the Silent Flo 5000 citculation pump and that pump dosent have a shaft driven impeller so if you take the top off of the pump the impeller is just kinda sitting there in a stainless steel cup with the top containing the other half of this "cup" and the whole thing is sealed with 1 large O ring seal taking this apart and cleaning it should be an easy job.

lol but I have to stress that I have been out of the business for some time now and I think there are great resources on the web for finding parts and breakdown diagrams for this spa and I think you should also look at those diagrams before you take anything apart.

Before I try filling and starting it I'd like to clean as much as possible and replace as much tubing as I can. Would those diagrams you speak of show where the thermistors are and how to check if they need replacing ? I'll see what I can do about finding some breakdown diagrams.

 

[Spacepuppy]

you know I am not sure what the forum rules are for posting links to businesses so I would just say if you google something like hot spring spa parts you will quickly find the type of sites I am talking about.

I still hope you had a protracted discussion with the rep that told you it was a heater. I have seen the filters clogged by well water the first week of use and even if you dont have well water Baquacil products work differently than chlorine does the sanatizer in Baquacil acts more like soap rather than chlorine/bromine which are oxiders this means that there are billions of exploded bacterial bodies floating around in the spa water, now your HS spa has 3 filters so they will filter these bodies trapping them in the filter but this also means they are clogging your filter. Baquacil does have a shock (hydrogen peroxide) that will assist in oxidizing out those bodies but IMO not as well as chlorine/bromine. Being that your filters are the origional filters and they are more than 7 years old I think thats the first place to look after you have established that the circulation pump is working properly. I am sure you will find lots of opinions on this site about sanatizers and I am not trying to say anything bad about baquacil products you just have to clean your filters a bit more often IMO.

notice I am saying IMO as I am sure others would disagree lol in fact reading through some of these discussions I wonder how many of these guys are just industruy professionals skillfully promoting their products.

 

[woodchopper]

you know I am not sure what the forum rules are for posting links to businesses so I would just say if you google something like hot spring spa parts you will quickly find the type of sites I am talking about.

I still hope you had a protracted discussion with the rep that told you it was a heater. I have seen the filters clogged by well water the first week of use and even if you dont have well water Baquacil products work differently than chlorine does the sanatizer in Baquacil acts more like soap rather than chlorine/bromine which are oxiders this means that there are billions of exploded bacterial bodies floating around in the spa water, now your HS spa has 3 filters so they will filter these bodies trapping them in the filter but this also means they are clogging your filter. Baquacil does have a shock (hydrogen peroxide) that will assist in oxidizing out those bodies but IMO not as well as chlorine/bromine. Being that your filters are the origional filters and they are more than 7 years old I think thats the first place to look after you have established that the circulation pump is working properly. I am sure you will find lots of opinions on this site about sanatizers and I am not trying to say anything bad about baquacil products you just have to clean your filters a bit more often IMO.

notice I am saying IMO as I am sure others would disagree lol in fact reading through some of these discussions I wonder how many of these guys are just industruy professionals skillfully promoting their products.

It was a factory customer service person that said it was the heater and not the service guy at where I bought it. The heater had been improved three times since I bought the tub so I probably would have had problems with it eventually. I don't regret buying it but after reading your post my initial problem might of been something else. Live and learn.
You mention cleaning my filters more often. Can I do that in the dishwasher or should I do that using chemicals ? Considering the age of the filters would you suggest new ones or just cleaning ?
I still know next to nothing about spa chemicals and only bought Baquacil Products because the salesman told me it was much better than using chlorine. Now after reading your post I regret not doing more research beforehand and trying chlorine out first. Residue build-up on my filters, pump, and heater from using Baquacil might of caused my whole problem.
BTW, you were spot on about the water I used in my spa when it was last running. Well Water. :

 

[Spacepuppy]

I have heard of people cleaning the filters in the dishwasher but I have never done it myself. I realize the heater has been changed 3 times since you bought your spa but that may or may not be to "upgrade" the actual unit but rather it could have been to find a supplier to deliver that part cheaper or a design that makes the heater less expensive to manufacture. I sold HS spa's for years and I did not encounter what I would call a lot of heater failures on the models I sold or older units thats not to say it diddnt happen it just wasent common.

ANNND lastly there is nothing wrong with Baquacil products they work well and while not as cheap as chlorine they are a cost effective alternative to using a chlorine or bromine system, I would say you just need to clean your filter a bit more often to ensure good flow through the circulation pump and full jet pressure. I think you should get a new set of filters and use your old filters when you refill the tub, let these sacrafical filters pull out all the metals and other filter clogging stuff, and then replace them with the new ones in a day or two.

 

[woodchopper]

My spa worked fine right up to the time I drained it. I didn't have problems until the following year when I filled the tub and it wouldn't heat up and the display was flashing. Seems weird my problems might be traced to something as simple as dirty filters or components in the tub. I'll check my circulation pump when I change my heater and clean my filters. Hopefully doing these three things will put my tub on the road to recovery. I hope everything comes together. Thanks a million for the advice !!

 

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

yup just remember those filters are the heart of the spa, always keep them as clean as possible and you will save yourself future headaches, the more you use the spa, the more you will need to clean them (btw a thorough cleaning does not mean hitting them with the garden hose for 15 seconds  ;D they need to be soaked a few times a year at minimum)....dirty filters = reduced flow which = heater won't operate properly, obviously the same theory applies with a circ pump that is not operating properly

 

[woodchopper]

I've seen stuff to soak them with at the spa shops and I guess I'll buy some. Without question I wasn't cleaning them enough when the tub was running. Stupid beginners mistake on my part.

 

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

I've seen stuff to soak them with at the spa shops and I guess I'll buy some. Without question I wasn't cleaning them enough when the tub was running. Stupid beginners mistake on my part.

most spa/pool shops will have some sort of filter cleaner which is made up of an acid base and tsp which you will dilute with water, a $10 large Rubbermaid tote works well as a place to soak them and most products will recommend soaking 12-24hrs, just make sure you rinse them off real well afterwords

 

[woodchopper]

  Thanks for the advice. I'll pick some of that filter cleaner up this weekend.

 

[Chas]

Wow - I don't want to come across as 'just promoting my product...'

But if the digital display is flashing, you have a problem. Try simply resetting the power a couple of times.. or setting a different temperature. If that doesn't help then you have power issues, or an issue with the control system.

Now, on the other hand, if the power light is flashing, it simply means that the heater got too warm. That, of course, means that the heater works, but there is not enough water flow through it to carry away the heat it is making. That could be due to a dirty filter, which is an easy fix of course. It could also be due to an air bubble in the circ pump - when you fill a HS tub you should put the hose into the center of the circ filter. That means the filter which feeds the circ pump. Forcing the water down that standpipe helps push out air and primes the entire heating system.

If the ready light is flashing, it means that there is an issue with the control thermistor ('temp sensor') which is easy to replace and not real expensive. If you do one, do both.

If BOTH lights are flashing it means a problem with the circ pump itself, or a complete air lock of the circ pump.

More thoughts - Baqua has plugged up the circ pump and circ plumbing on many of our customer's tubs over the years. It can be cleaned by snaking it out. I put a small patch of cloth in the end of my electrician's snake and put it into the 3/4" plumbing starting right at the wall of the motor compartment. That line runs a circle around the base of the foot well area, and then ends at the floor drain. If you fill the tub just two or three inches over the drain fitting, water will run out and flush the goo you are breaking loose with the snake.

HTH

8)

 

[woodchopper]

If the ready light is flashing, it means that there is an issue with the control thermistor ('temp sensor') which is easy to replace and not real expensive. If you do one, do both.

If BOTH lights are flashing it means a problem with the circ pump itself, or a complete air lock of the circ pump.

More thoughts - Baqua has plugged up the circ pump and circ plumbing on many of our customer's tubs over the years. It can be cleaned by snaking it out. I put a small patch of cloth in the end of my electrician's snake and put it into the 3/4" plumbing starting right at the wall of the motor compartment. That line runs a circle around the base of the foot well area, and then ends at the floor drain. If you fill the tub just two or three inches over the drain fitting, water will run out and flush the goo you are breaking loose with the snake.

HTH

8)

Thanks for taking the time to write that informative post. I'm thinking now that it's been almost three years since I tried to start the tub the last time and I'm not sure how many lights were flashing but I think it was both. After reading your post I think the circ pump is clogged and it's nice to see I can clean it without having to remove it. Last weekend I cleaned the inside of the tub and noticed it drained rather slowly which backs up your idea that the pump and the line to the drain might be clogged up with something.
I think I saw the line that you spoke of but don't remember seeing anyplace where I could put an electrical snake to break the sediment loose. I'd like to find that opening and the location of both control thermistors which I probably should have on hand or just replace to increase my chances of the tub working when I fill it. I'd like to have all my I's dotted and my tee's crossed when I try my tub.  ;D

 

[Chas]

The Temp Sensors (Thermistors) are on the heater. They are not interchangeable, one is for the control thermostat system, the other for the High Temp safety system ("Hi Limit"). They cannot be installed in the wrong spots as they have different size threads and different connectors.

The place to feed in the snake would be the fitting nearest the wall of the motor compartment - you will have to remove the vinyl tubing which goes from the heater to the wall. With the tub empty, you may still get a small amount of water out of the tubing, but slide the clamp back and work the tubing off the PVC barbed fitting which leads into the wall of the compartment. It may have a short length of flexible PVC showing, that's the very "pipe" you want to clean. You can also get to it from the drain fitting in the bottom of the tub, but then the crud has no place to go. It needs to have some water flow to work the stuff out of the tube as you break it free.

You will have to remove the circ pump to clean it - I have flushed them out in-place by removing one tube and letting the water flow out as I carefully worked a wire or other probe into the pump, but the best way to get it really clean and clear (by far) is to remove it and dismantle it.


HTH

8)

 

[woodchopper]

The Temp Sensors (Thermistors) are on the heater. They are not interchangeable, one is for the control thermostat system, the other for the High Temp safety system ("Hi Limit"). They cannot be installed in the wrong spots as they have different size threads and different connectors.

The place to feed in the snake would be the fitting nearest the wall of the motor compartment - you will have to remove the vinyl tubing which goes from the heater to the wall. With the tub empty, you may still get a small amount of water out of the tubing, but slide the clamp back and work the tubing off the PVC barbed fitting which leads into the wall of the compartment. It may have a short length of flexible PVC showing, that's the very "pipe" you want to clean. You can also get to it from the drain fitting in the bottom of the tub, but then the crud has no place to go. It needs to have some water flow to work the stuff out of the tube as you break it free.

You will have to remove the circ pump to clean it - I have flushed them out in-place by removing one tube and letting the water flow out as I carefully worked a wire or other probe into the pump, but the best way to get it really clean and clear (by far) is to remove it and dismantle it.


HTH

8)

Thanks again for another informative post. Weather depending I'm going to try and do this Sunday. We're getting snow on Saturday. I've since found out my insurance  company is going to require the install if inspected so I'm going to pull a permit and hire a REAL electrician to hook everything up. Since we'll be using the tub only during the colder months I'm thinking about having it wired for 220. I've already have the thick black wire  at our other residence that was used with our other tub that was 220. I figured if I'm paying for an electrician anyway I might as well do it right. The heater can't keep up when you're using the blowers in real cold weather. Having it wired for 220 makes sense. I can't wait to get the tub drain all cleaned out and the heater installed. It's been a long time coming. 

 

[woodchopper]

Well I worked on the tub today and ran into a few problems. I snaked out the hose from the pump from both sides. Didn't find any debris or anything that would make it drain slow.
I removed to pump and was unable to remove the cover because I didn't have the right Allen wrench. When I was handling it I noticed a rattling sound and it looks like the impeller is either broken or disconnected. I wonder if there was water in there which froze up and broke something in there ? Because I can't get the cover off I'm not sure how bad it is. Anyone know what size Allen wench I need ?
  When I looked at the heater I ran into a few problems. 1] There's a electrical wire coming off the heater that goes into the IQ 2000 black box that I haven't been able to figure out how to disconnect to install the new heater. It looks like it might stay in place on the small box that sits on top of the heater. I think that box gets remounted on the new heater.  2] There's a ground wire on the back of the heater that is held in place with screws that have heads that aren't Phillips, slotted, or allen. They look square.  Any idea what I need to remove those screws?  I bought a bottle of filter cleaner and will clean the filters this coming week. The center one was dirtier than I had originally thought. I think there's a strong possibility once the heater and silent-flo 5000 are replaced and filters cleaned I'll be good to go. TIA

 

[Chas]

I didn't have the right Allen wrench. Metric
When I was handling it I noticed a rattling sound and it looks like the impeller is either broken or disconnected. Normal

When I looked at the heater I ran into a few problems. 1] There's a electrical wire coming off the heater that goes into the IQ 2000 black box that I haven't been able to figure out how to disconnect to install the new heater. It looks like it might stay in place on the small box that sits on top of the heater. I think that box gets remounted on the new heater.Unplug all three wires (white/black and green) in the IQ-2020. Squeeze the cord clamp where the heavy cord exits the bottom of the box. Reverse to install new heater (it comes with a cord)

2] There's a ground wire on the back of the heater that is held in place with screws that have heads that aren't Phillips, slotted, or allen. They look square.  Any idea what I need to remove those screws? There is only one screw which clamps the wire in place - it is a square/slotted combo. But if you can't get it loose, simply cut the wire right next to it.

 

[woodchopper]

Thanks Chas !!  So far it looks like there wasn't any frost damage and the circulation pump and Wave mater are undamaged and ready to use. I'll know for sure after the electrician has everything hooked up. The weather is supposed to be decent this coming Saturday and I hope to have everything except the electrical connections done. Hopefully I'll be able to post a video of my tub up and running.
Thanks everybody who was kind enough to take the time to offer their advice in this thread. I appreciate the offer of help very much !!!