Electrical help - GFCI popping

[barshnik]

Brand new spa Artisian, replaced an old 240v one.  Added a GFCI breaker box at the spa, otherwise wireing is unchanged from my old 240 unit (50 amp).

The GFCI pops immediatily after turning on the external breaker / GFCI (the backlight on the deck control turns on for a half second before tripping, no motor noise at all.  All voltages are correct, 6 guage all the way, checked everything 10 times.

Could I do damage by bypassing the GFCI, other than maybe burning up the spa controller?  I'm thinking something must be worn with the pac.  Any troubleshooting tips are welcome.

John F

 

[Altazi]

Do NOT bypass the GFCI breaker under any circumstances!  In addition to tripping on gross overcurrent conditions, GFCI breakers are used to detect imbalances in the current flow on the 240V lines.  If the GFCI breaker is functioning properly and it trips, this means that there may be AC current leaking SOMEWHERE ELSE instead of where it is intended.  This can cause lethal conditions to exist!!!

I would have an experienced, factory-authorized spa technician check out the spa and it's electrical environment.  You also might want to have a licensed electrician check out the main panel, the breaker, and the wiring leading up to the spa.  Electricity is NOT an area for amateurs to mess around!

Regards,

Altazi

 

[DPS]

Did you wire the new GFCI panel yourself?  If not, call the electrician back and have him look at where the neutral wire that runs to the spa is hooked up in the GFCI box.

If you did wire it yourself look at where you connected the neutral.  There is a third terminal on 50a GFCI breakers between or below the other 2 terminals.  The neutral that runs to the spa must be connected there, instead of to the neutral bar.
Of course, if you wired the GFCI in you know to turn off the main breaker and check with a test meter to make sure power is off before working in the GFCI box!

 

[hottubdan]

Could be a bad breaker.

 

[Gary]

Do NOT bypass the GFCI breaker under any circumstances!  In addition to tripping on gross overcurrent conditions, GFCI breakers are used to detect imbalances in the current flow on the 240V lines.  If the GFCI breaker is functioning properly and it trips, this means that there may be AC current leaking SOMEWHERE ELSE instead of where it is intended.  This can cause lethal conditions to exist!!!

I would have an experienced, factory-authorized spa technician check out the spa and it's electrical environment.  You also might want to have a licensed electrician check out the main panel, the breaker, and the wiring leading up to the spa.  Electricity is NOT an area for amateurs to mess around!

Regards,

Altazi

Great Advice!!!!! By asking the question is enough to know you need to call a qualified person. Not to slam you or any one else but it is a safety thing.

 

[Mendocino101]

A sad reminder but a few years ago during the world series a pitcher on the Yankees lost several members of his family due to not having a gfi on his swimming pool. Get someone out who knows how to address your problem and you will be much better off in the long term for it.

 

[barshnik]

I actually did have an electrician hook up the GFCI disconnect, but he refused to charge me anything since he couldn't make it work by late evening.

Laying in bed, reading the little instruction sheet that came with the Lowes GFCI/disconnect, I realized he had not connected the white (neutral) wire to the GFCI part of the breaker, but instead to the bus.

I got out of bed, dressed (sort of), and connected the load (spa) side according to directions - of course, it now works perfectly.  I called him today, and he said he's never seen a GFCI that hooks up this way.

Sometimes it pays to just read directions instead of going by 'experience'.

BTW, the Artesian Falcon is terrific.

John F
LV, NV

 

[Confused_in_Canada]

Laying in bed, reading the little instruction sheet that came with the Lowes GFCI/disconnect, I realized he had not connected the white (neutral) wire to the GFCI part of the breaker, but instead to the bus.

I got out of bed, dressed (sort of), and connected the load (spa) side according to directions - of course, it now works perfectly.  I called him today, and he said he's never seen a GFCI that hooks up this way

Barshnik

  Hmm...
 
  I think I would refrain from using this electrician

 

[jfish63]

I never saw a GFCI hook up any other way. The load neutral as far as I know has always hooked up to the breaker.

 

[Gary]

I never saw a GFCI hook up any other way. The load neutral as far as I know has always hooked up to the breaker.

There are two types a 240-volt GFCI and a 120/240 (also known as a load neutral) GFCI. They do not connect the same way.

 

[Altazi]

Great Advice!!!!! By asking the question is enough to know you need to call a qualified person. Not to slam you or any one else but it is a safety thing.

I'm sorry if I came off "preachy", but as someone who works with electricity every day, I cannot in good conscience recommend that someone who is untrained begin to "mess around" with wiring, especially where there are such dangerous voltages present.
It takes such a TINY current flowing through your heart to cause an arrhythmia, which can lead to death.  When you add WATER to the mix, it just makes me shudder.  On a 240VAC line you have peak voltages of about 340V 60 times per second.  You can have short-circuit currents on the order of THOUSANDS of amperes before a breaker has time to trip - this will vaporize portions of metal tools in a flash of sparks and molten metal.  I don't think the average person respects electricity anywhere near as much as they should.

Regards,

Altazi

 

[aquatub]

I actually did have an electrician hook up the GFCI disconnect, but he refused to charge me anything since he couldn't make it work by late evening.

Laying in bed, reading the little instruction sheet that came with the Lowes GFCI/disconnect, I realized he had not connected the white (neutral) wire to the GFCI part of the breaker, but instead to the bus.

I got out of bed, dressed (sort of), and connected the load (spa) side according to directions - of course, it now works perfectly.  I called him today, and he said he's never seen a GFCI that hooks up this way.

Sometimes it pays to just read directions instead of going by 'experience'.

BTW, the Artesian Falcon is terrific.

John F
LV, NV

Amazing what reading the directions can do.  Too many electricians that don't work on hot tubs think they know what they are doing, so they don't read the directions.  My friend/dealer says he has seen a number electricians mess up stuff because they didn't know Hot Spring are wired a bit different - they just think they know.  Ugh.

 

[Vinny]

My friend who is an electrician hooked up my tub. My dealer gave me specific instructions on how to hook up the tub and I gave him a copy. Apparently this was the most stringent requirements he has ever seen in hot tubs. He wired mine up and then he got a hot tub himeself. He was all set with my instructions and looked at his and his didn't require what mine needed. His is a Jacuzzi and mine is an Artesian - I guess some tubs are different in wiring.

 

[hotubinn]

I actually did have an electrician hook up the GFCI disconnect, but he refused to charge me anything since he couldn't make it work by late evening.

Laying in bed, reading the little instruction sheet that came with the Lowes GFCI/disconnect, I realized he had not connected the white (neutral) wire to the GFCI part of the breaker, but instead to the bus.

I got out of bed, dressed (sort of), and connected the load (spa) side according to directions - of course, it now works perfectly.  I called him today, and he said he's never seen a GFCI that hooks up this way.

Sometimes it pays to just read directions instead of going by 'experience'.

BTW, the Artesian Falcon is terrific.

John F
LV, NV

Amazing what reading the directions can do.  Too many electricians that don't work on hot tubs think they know what they are doing, so they don't read the directions.  My friend/dealer says he has seen a number electricians mess up stuff because they didn't know Hot Spring are wired a bit different - they just think they know.  Ugh.

I have made VERY good money changing the nuetral to the correct spot on the breaker.  It is incredible the amount of calls I get on new installs.  For a nice wager of $300, I will drop what I'm doing drive right over and "fix" thier new spa.  My favorites are the "I am an Electrical Engineer, and I know I didn't wire it wrong!"
Hey, a man's gotta eat!

 

[MikeCherone]

Great thread. I don't like messing with electricity myself so I just call my local Spring Branch Electricians for any and' all things electrical. I'd especially hate to step into my hot tub and get fried!! LOL

 

[Jacuzzi_Jim]

I saw this thread before I left the house (running late) and knew it would be the neutral wire in the wrong place.  Being I am on the west coast, I have had many a home owner call us after hours  east coast time trying to hook up there own spa because it keeps tripping the breaker.  98% of the time its the wire, funny though most people think they bought a psc o chit spa and quite pissed that it doesn't run, and quite humbled when they find out they hooked it up wrong.  :

I have also talked to and argued with many electrician that can't wrap there mind around the fact that Jacuzzi and Sundance don't need a neutral wire ran to the spa.