Caldera Marino or Bullfrog X7

[mjdieth]

First post here as well as my first tub purchase, I can't wait.  I have been reading this site for a while now trying to gather as much information as possible, what a great resource this is. 

I have visited a couple of local dealers so far (northeast region, PA) and seem to be drawn to either the Caldera Marino or the Bullfrog X7 based on price.  I'm really trying to keep the out of the door final price to about 7K and based on my estimates so far these seem to fit the bill.

The first dealer gave me an offer of 6500 all inclusive for the Caldera Marino (Vanto as well); tub, steps, cover lift, chemicals, delivery, hookup of electric to tub (electrician to run line), and tax included as well. 

Second dealer was the Bullfrog, I did not expect to like the looks as much as I did.  Same 6500 price for this, but no electrical hookup.

From reading around here I can see that the Caldera may be the better of the tubs, but since it is the entry level model is it really still?  It seems that the jets in the Marino are basically all the same with the exception of 3 of them.  I really do not want to make a bad purchase and think there may be wiggle room on price on both of these as well, how does the price look to you?

If you have any other suggestions on tubs to look at that may be able to be had for around 7000 all in I would appreciate that as well.  I still have not wet tested these yet but plan to once I narrow down my options based on price.

Thanks for your help!!!!

 

[bradleyabell]

Definitely wet test them both. That will make your mind up fairly easy. We were actually looking at the Vanto and the X8 and really liked the size and the comfort of the X8 tub more than the Cladera Vanto and are going to end up buying that in the next week or so. We were quoted $6,800 plus tax for the X8 with everything included. 

 

[Sam]

I personally would choose the Bullfrog over that Caldera all day.  The Caldera has mostly those tiny euro jets and has smaller motors.  You'll find the jets in the Bullfrog to be significantly better, in my opinion.  Wet test if you can to see for yourself.  The Bullfrog also has a better warranty.  This one is a no-brainer to me.

 

[mjdieth]

I personally would choose the Bullfrog over that Caldera all day.  The Caldera has mostly those tiny euro jets and has smaller motors.  You'll find the jets in the Bullfrog to be significantly better, in my opinion.  Wet test if you can to see for yourself.  The Bullfrog also has a better warranty.  This one is a no-brainer to me.

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of information I wanted. I had the same feeling on the size of the jets of the Caldera.  Question for you though, are the jets on the X7 all different, I cannot find the specs on them. I know that model does not have jetpacks, but do the jets that are in place serve different functions?  What do you think of the 6500 quote, that was without negotiating at all.  I think I may be able to swing the R6 or R7 for 7500 if I work at it.

 

[bradleyabell]

I personally would choose the Bullfrog over that Caldera all day.  The Caldera has mostly those tiny euro jets and has smaller motors.  You'll find the jets in the Bullfrog to be significantly better, in my opinion.  Wet test if you can to see for yourself.  The Bullfrog also has a better warranty.  This one is a no-brainer to me.

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of information I wanted. I had the same feeling on the size of the jets of the Caldera.  Question for you though, are the jets on the X7 all different, I cannot find the specs on them. I know that model does not have jetpacks, but do the jets that are in place serve different functions?  What do you think of the 6500 quote, that was without negotiating at all.  I think I may be able to swing the R6 or R7 for 7500 if I work at it.

FWIW - I've seen the X7 as low as $6,000 ALL IN (meaning cover, steps, cover lifter, startup chemicals all included).

 

[mjdieth]

Fantastic, thanks for your feedback.  That will be a touch decision if I can get it down to that price.  The R7 seems appealing, but I wont be moving jetpacks around or anything.  I'm curious to see how different the jetpacks feel than the regular jets on the X7.

 

[bradleyabell]

Fantastic, thanks for your feedback.  That will be a touch decision if I can get it down to that price.  The R7 seems appealing, but I wont be moving jetpacks around or anything.  I'm curious to see how different the jetpacks feel than the regular jets on the X7.

No problem!  We tried the X7 but really, really loved the X8 due to the size of it.  That is one of only a few tubes in the below $7k price range that can actually comfortably fit 6.  We also didn't think we wanted a lounger, but upon testing the lounger in the X8 we decided we REALLY wanted one!

 

[mjdieth]

Does anyone have any information about the types of jets that are in the Bullfrog X7 model?  I cannot seem to find out if they are all the same or serve different purposes.  If they are all the same I probably just want to pass on this altogether.

 

[bradleyabell]

Does anyone have any information about the types of jets that are in the Bullfrog X7 model?  I cannot seem to find out if they are all the same or serve different purposes.  If they are all the same I probably just want to pass on this altogether.

Each seat does have a different feel to it.  I would highly recommend you go and wet test it before deciding to drop it.  Test out the X7 and one with the jet pack and see if it's really worth the $$$$.  We decided that the jet packs weren't really worth the extra dough and that they didn't feel that much better than the X series jets.

 

[kevinkiller]

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of information I wanted. I had the same feeling on the size of the jets of the Caldera.  Question for you though, are the jets on the X7 all different, I cannot find the specs on them. I know that model does not have jetpacks, but do the jets that are in place serve different functions?  What do you think of the 6500 quote, that was without negotiating at all.  I think I may be able to swing the R6 or R7 for 7500 if I work at it.

FWIW - I've seen the X7 as low as $6,000 ALL IN (meaning cover, steps, cover lifter, startup chemicals all included).

Exactly where did you see this pricing?  My local dealer wouldn't go less than $7K even with cash in hand.

 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I personally would choose the Bullfrog over that Caldera all day.  The Caldera has mostly those tiny euro jets and has smaller motors.  You'll find the jets in the Bullfrog to be significantly better, in my opinion.  Wet test if you can to see for yourself.  The Bullfrog also has a better warranty.  This one is a no-brainer to me.

this...can't believe they are even selling the X that cheap, Bullfrog construction will BLOW AWAY that Mexican built Caldera

 

[Tman122]

First post here as well as my first tub purchase, I can't wait.  I have been reading this site for a while now trying to gather as much information as possible, what a great resource this is. 

I have visited a couple of local dealers so far (northeast region, PA) and seem to be drawn to either the Caldera Marino or the Bullfrog X7 based on price.  I'm really trying to keep the out of the door final price to about 7K and based on my estimates so far these seem to fit the bill.

The first dealer gave me an offer of 6500 all inclusive for the Caldera Marino (Vanto as well); tub, steps, cover lift, chemicals, delivery, hookup of electric to tub (electrician to run line), and tax included as well. 

Second dealer was the Bullfrog, I did not expect to like the looks as much as I did.  Same 6500 price for this, but no electrical hookup.

From reading around here I can see that the Caldera may be the better of the tubs, but since it is the entry level model is it really still?  It seems that the jets in the Marino are basically all the same with the exception of 3 of them.  I really do not want to make a bad purchase and think there may be wiggle room on price on both of these as well, how does the price look to you?

If you have any other suggestions on tubs to look at that may be able to be had for around 7000 all in I would appreciate that as well.  I still have not wet tested these yet but plan to once I narrow down my options based on price.

Thanks for your help!!!!

Understand that so far every opinion you have received is from BF dealers, BF owners and future owners. The fact that the Caldera is made in Mexico has absolutely nothing to do with how it's built versus the BF. Wet test to be sure.

Caldera is a solid brand with a great reputation for energy efficiency, comfort and longevity.

 

[d00nut]

BF is great, but can't turn off the air on the jets, witch creates high pH environments.  Get it with the circ pump to avoid that issue!

Wet test as always!

 

[Sam]

First post here as well as my first tub purchase, I can't wait.  I have been reading this site for a while now trying to gather as much information as possible, what a great resource this is. 

I have visited a couple of local dealers so far (northeast region, PA) and seem to be drawn to either the Caldera Marino or the Bullfrog X7 based on price.  I'm really trying to keep the out of the door final price to about 7K and based on my estimates so far these seem to fit the bill.

The first dealer gave me an offer of 6500 all inclusive for the Caldera Marino (Vanto as well); tub, steps, cover lift, chemicals, delivery, hookup of electric to tub (electrician to run line), and tax included as well. 

Second dealer was the Bullfrog, I did not expect to like the looks as much as I did.  Same 6500 price for this, but no electrical hookup.

From reading around here I can see that the Caldera may be the better of the tubs, but since it is the entry level model is it really still?  It seems that the jets in the Marino are basically all the same with the exception of 3 of them.  I really do not want to make a bad purchase and think there may be wiggle room on price on both of these as well, how does the price look to you?

If you have any other suggestions on tubs to look at that may be able to be had for around 7000 all in I would appreciate that as well.  I still have not wet tested these yet but plan to once I narrow down my options based on price.

Thanks for your help!!!!

Understand that so far every opinion you have received is from BF dealers, BF owners and future owners. The fact that the Caldera is made in Mexico has absolutely nothing to do with how it's built versus the BF. Wet test to be sure.

Caldera is a solid brand with a great reputation for energy efficiency, comfort and longevity.

Nobody moves a manufacturing facility from the USA to Mexico to make a better hot tub.  They do it to make a cheaper hot tub and avoid regulations.  Bullfrog construction is as good as it gets in our industry and most people who've been to the factory agree.  I've been to many major manufacturers over the years, even the Jacuzzi one in Mexico.  I'll also add that this is merely my opinion.  An opinion informed by 22 years in the industry working with many different manufacturers from sales to service to deliveries to management.

Now I'm not saying Bullfrog is perfect, or even that they are the best hot tub available.  I think they most things extremely well and can improve on just a couple of small things.  Some of which were addressed and just announced at the industry EXPO.  When my friends ask me about what hot tub to buy, I tell them to look at Bullfrog, Artesian, Marquis as my favorites but to also add in Arctic, hot spring, and jacuzzi sundance if they have the ability.  I tell them to specifically avoid Cal Spa, Master, Clearwater, and big box stores.

 

[d00nut]

I tell them to specifically avoid Cal Spa, Master, Clearwater, and big box stores.

All proudly made in the USA 

 

[Hottubguy]

First post here as well as my first tub purchase, I can't wait.  I have been reading this site for a while now trying to gather as much information as possible, what a great resource this is. 

I have visited a couple of local dealers so far (northeast region, PA) and seem to be drawn to either the Caldera Marino or the Bullfrog X7 based on price.  I'm really trying to keep the out of the door final price to about 7K and based on my estimates so far these seem to fit the bill.

The first dealer gave me an offer of 6500 all inclusive for the Caldera Marino (Vanto as well); tub, steps, cover lift, chemicals, delivery, hookup of electric to tub (electrician to run line), and tax included as well. 

Second dealer was the Bullfrog, I did not expect to like the looks as much as I did.  Same 6500 price for this, but no electrical hookup.

From reading around here I can see that the Caldera may be the better of the tubs, but since it is the entry level model is it really still?  It seems that the jets in the Marino are basically all the same with the exception of 3 of them.  I really do not want to make a bad purchase and think there may be wiggle room on price on both of these as well, how does the price look to you?

If you have any other suggestions on tubs to look at that may be able to be had for around 7000 all in I would appreciate that as well.  I still have not wet tested these yet but plan to once I narrow down my options based on price.

Thanks for your help!!!!

Understand that so far every opinion you have received is from BF dealers, BF owners and future owners. The fact that the Caldera is made in Mexico has absolutely nothing to do with how it's built versus the BF. Wet test to be sure.

Caldera is a solid brand with a great reputation for energy efficiency, comfort and longevity.

Nobody moves a manufacturing facility from the USA to Mexico to make a better hot tub.  They do it to make a cheaper hot tub and avoid regulations.  Bullfrog construction is as good as it gets in our industry and most people who've been to the factory agree.  I've been to many major manufacturers over the years, even the Jacuzzi one in Mexico.  I'll also add that this is merely my opinion.  An opinion informed by 22 years in the industry working with many different manufacturers from sales to service to deliveries to management.

Now I'm not saying Bullfrog is perfect, or even that they are the best hot tub available.  I think they most things extremely well and can improve on just a couple of small things.  Some of which were addressed and just announced at the industry EXPO.  When my friends ask me about what hot tub to buy, I tell them to look at Bullfrog, Artesian, Marquis as my favorites but to also add in Arctic, hot spring, and jacuzzi sundance if they have the ability.  I tell them to specifically avoid Cal Spa, Master, Clearwater, and big box stores.

Caldera and Marquis dealer here.  You can say that nobody makes a the move to Mexico to make a better tub all you want but the fact is there is zero difference in warranty calls between the 2.  I used to sell Clearwater which was made in the USA and it seemed like every other tub I sold I had to go fix something on.  So I think the made in USA thing is great but doesn't mean something is built better.  Bullfrog has come on strong over the last few years but Watkins has been making a great tub for the last 20 years.  Wet test both and buy the one that you are most comfortable with and from the dealer who will service you the best

 

[Tman122]

Nobody moves a manufacturing facility from the USA to Mexico to make a better hot tub.  They do it to make a cheaper hot tub and avoid regulations.  Bullfrog construction is as good as it gets in our industry and most people who've been to the factory agree.  I've been to many major manufacturers over the years, even the Jacuzzi one in Mexico.  I'll also add that this is merely my opinion.  An opinion informed by 22 years in the industry working with many different manufacturers from sales to service to deliveries to management.

Now I'm not saying Bullfrog is perfect, or even that they are the best hot tub available.  I think they most things extremely well and can improve on just a couple of small things.  Some of which were addressed and just announced at the industry EXPO.  When my friends ask me about what hot tub to buy, I tell them to look at Bullfrog, Artesian, Marquis as my favorites but to also add in Arctic, hot spring, and jacuzzi sundance if they have the ability.  I tell them to specifically avoid Cal Spa, Master, Clearwater, and big box stores.

No one said they moved to Mexico to make a better tub. But someone did imply that they moved there to make a worse tub. And it wasn't me. And thats not true. Lets keep that straight. Caldera is a better tub than BF in my opinion. But my opinion from 30 years of seeing a hundred brands is worthless because I don't sell any brand.

If the OP wants my reasoning on why they can PM me to prevent pissed of BF dealers and owners. Which there are a ton of hanging around this board. And I get it, social media campaigns are the rage these days.

 

[Sorrentino100]

The X-Series looks to be the better tub. Much larger jets, no diverter valves and far less plumbing. They don't show it in their X-series brochure, however, Bullfrog does not utilize as many hoses as you will find in Caldera.

The A- and R-Series are better tubs, but on your budget, if you wet test and like the X, at the price you've been quoted, that's a great deal.

I'm not a Bullfrog dealer and perhaps more, smaller jets, diverter valves, thinner cover insulation, more plumbing and foreign made may suit you best. That's for you to decide.

The wet test will let you know what works best for you and yours...

 

[castletonia]

Someone humor me.  How does a Bullfrog X Series utilize less plumbing than the Caldera Marino?  There are 2 less jets, so please don't tell me 2 less hoses  .  Neither has diverter valves, but having or not having them doesn't necessarily make something better or worse.  And how thick is Bullfrog's cover and what is the foam density?  I sold Sunstar covers for 16 years and I'll take their 3.5"-2.5" cover with 1.5lb foam anyday over a 6"-4" cover with .75lb density foam.  I dealt with and saw enough junk covers from companies like Prestige and Cal Cover to know that a thicker cover is not always a better cover.

I'm not bashing Bullfrog here, I think they make a good hot tub, but it amazes me how many people make them out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Yes I currently sell Hot Spring and Caldera, but have sold a lot of other brands too.  Bullfrog was never mentioned on here before about 5 years ago so besides changing their shell molds, what has gotten so much better that made them a player in the industry now?  Also, how does anyone know their longevity since even though they have existed since I believe 1996, I have never seen a older Bullfrog?

And before we "bash" something made in Mexico, which then means that Caldera, some Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, and D1 are all lesser quality, but there are a lot of low quality hot tubs made proudly in the USA. 

 

[Tman122]

Someone humor me.  How does a Bullfrog X Series utilize less plumbing than the Caldera Marino?  There are 2 less jets, so please don't tell me 2 less hoses  .  Neither has diverter valves, but having or not having them doesn't necessarily make something better or worse.  And how thick is Bullfrog's cover and what is the foam density?  I sold Sunstar covers for 16 years and I'll take their 3.5"-2.5" cover with 1.5lb foam anyday over a 6"-4" cover with .75lb density foam.  I dealt with and saw enough junk covers from companies like Prestige and Cal Cover to know that a thicker cover is not always a better cover.

I'm not bashing Bullfrog here, I think they make a good hot tub, but it amazes me how many people make them out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Yes I currently sell Hot Spring and Caldera, but have sold a lot of other brands too.  Bullfrog was never mentioned on here before about 5 years ago so besides changing their shell molds, what has gotten so much better that made them a player in the industry now?  Also, how does anyone know their longevity since even though they have existed since I believe 1996, I have never seen a older Bullfrog?

And before we "bash" something made in Mexico, which then means that Caldera, some Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, and D1 are all lesser quality, but there are a lot of low quality hot tubs made proudly in the USA.

Someone humor me how does less plumbing (if this is true) have anything to do with how a tub feels? And I want diverter valves, you get much more adjustability.