A *im the *im question

[Campsalot]

OK I realize that I may very well be shot for asking this   BUT I'm DYING OF CURIOSITY.  I was reading the post below about "how to respond to an e-mail like this" when I decided to go check out this guys H***n web site.  
OK load your gunss cause this is where it will get ugly.   I visited the site and was appalled by the horrible web site design.  However, it was spa information utopia?  What makes this *im the *im such a bad guy?  No I do not own one of these H**n spas.  I own a Sundance Maxxus.  No I'm not a spy or a *im the *im plant.  I am offering this only because if I were you when faced with a question like this I might think I was a plant or a spy.  I just want to know whats so damn bad???  Incidently, I am not a dealer but I play one on TV.  LOL!  Noe just an end user dude who enjoys this forum.

 

[Phil_]

Campsalot,
Check this to start with: http://www.selberg.org/~speed/spa.html. It will give you an idea of the quality of his products and his (lack of) customer service. If you get an opportunity to read some of his posts (which is tough because he has been banned from most of the spa related forums) you'll see he has an absurdly high opinion of himself and his knowledge about spas and engineering, in general.
Yes, it is a horrible site. Very busy and, at first, he does appear to come off as sincere but if you dig a little deeper you'll see there's a lot more going on there than meets the eye.  

Phil

 

[jeremy]

 Strangely enough, this guy's website was the first one I ran into when I began researching spas.  I just couldn't take him seriously when I ran across this description of his competition's products....

“Cheap plastic formed into a bowel."

I’d imagine they stock them right next to the rubber chickens.   ;D

 

[Campsalot]

Holy &8^%!  I have ben reading about this guy for over 1.5 hours.  Why is he still in business?  I would have to believe that the two customers I read about are only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg".  Again why is he still in business?  What really fries my %^$# is the fact the damn BBB does not really look into this.  He should not be BBB "Reliability Certified".  My business is BBB Reliability Certified and now I seriously question it's value.  He looks so "old and grandpa reliable" in his photos.  That is a scary mixture.  I wonder how many spas he actually sales.

 

[anne]

See? All it took was a little reading, and you could see what a horribly demented person he seems to be. That website (in my opinion) is like a car crash- you dont want to look but you cannot take your eyes away from it. Doesn't it make you infuriated on behaf of the poor suckers who have bought into his "wisdom"? Part of what gets to me more than anything else is his extremely poor use of the english language. He does not even sound college educated, let alone having an advanced degree. All of us relax the grammatical muscles in a forum thread, but he'll write passages that attempt to sound scholarly, and he just sounds like a 7th grader. In my opinion. It is pathetic. And that does not even address the CONTENT of what he has to say, just the delivery! IMHO.

OK, done ranting......

 

[Brewman]

You guys are just seeing a website.  His website is Sesame Street in comparison to the stuff he's pulled on the various spa forums, before he and his many aliases got banned from pretty much every spa board except his own.  

 

[Campsalot]

Someone please answer me!  Why is this guy still in business?  Can he possibly be selling that many spas?   Why hasn't someone contacted the BBB regarding his online status withthe BBB?

 

[George]

Someone please answer me!  Why is this guy still in business?  Can he possibly be selling that many spas?   Why hasn't someone contacted the BBB regarding his online status withthe BBB?

BBB ratings don't mean much more than spa reviews. Members rarely get bad ratings because the BBB rely on membership dues to exist.  If he were not a member of the BBB he would have a bad rating. The BBB concept is flawed, it never works to rate the person who pays you.  Non-members are the ones that take the brunt of the BBB.

He calls all major brand spas junk and rants and rages about how major brands are ripping people off.  He claims his home made tubs are the only tubs that are any good.  Just someone to avoid and market forces will soon catch up to him.  He also charges outragous prices for his tubs 10k+ for most.  He gets in a mid range tub out of Califorina then modifies it with some extra insulation and stuff then marks it up another 4k and sells it under his own brand name.

 

[Brewman]

He is in business because he is generating enough of an income from his company to keep going.  It's just that simple.

 

[Spatech_tuo]

He is in business because he is generating enough of an income from his company to keep going.  It's just that simple.

There are enough consiracy theorists in the U.S. to read his fables and believe that he is holding the truth. He's got a very small operation and all he's looking for is one person/week to drink the Kool-aide. as a bonus, every one of his spa customers gets upgraded to first class on the spaceship he's building to get them off the planet before the end arrives.

 

[George]

He is in business because he is generating enough of an income from his company to keep going.  It's just that simple.

There are enough consiracy theorists in the U.S. to read his fables and believe that he is holding the truth. He's got a very small operation and all he's looking for is one person/week to drink the Kool-aide. as a bonus, every one of his spa customers gets upgraded to first class on the spaceship he's building to get them off the planet before the end arrives.

With his prices he doesn't have to sell many to make a living.  Charging 12K for a modified 5k tub.

 

[Alan]

Campsalot,
Check this to start with: http://www.selberg.org/~speed/spa.html. It
Phil

If the product is that bad, shouldn't we have more than that one site as an example?  That is a bad one, but I would have thought there would be more by now

 

[Spatech_tuo]

Campsalot,
Check this to start with: http://www.selberg.org/~speed/spa.html. It
Phil

If the product is that bad, shouldn't we have more than that one site as an example?  That is a bad one, but I would have thought there would be more by now

But with that thinking, where are all the sites started for Marquis, Sundance, Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, etc. who sells hundreds of thousands combined. People do come to spa forums with issues but RARELY do they feel the need to dedicate a site to their feeling of abondonment. To my recollection I've only seen this done a couple other times and even then the few times I saw it (Thermospas for sure and I think I may have seen one other but not 100% who it was) those manufacturers could at lest claim that was one disgruntled cutomer out of 10s of thousands.

 

[lets]

That would depend on a number of thing, the first being just how many spas have actually been sold. Also, of those that got "burned", how many actually publicly complain, and how many of those would go to those lengths to complain, and how many of those know how to write a web site, and how many of those want to go to the time and trouble to write such a thing?????

As far as I know, that site is one of only 2 (maybe 3) that exist on the net as complaints against a spa manufacturer. The other "was" against T-spas and I believe has finally been resolved with them and most of the site has now been removed.

Campsalot,
Check this to start with: http://www.selberg.org/~speed/spa.html. It
Phil

If the product is that bad, shouldn't we have more than that one site as an example?  That is a bad one, but I would have thought there would be more by now

 

[Campsalot]

What I mean when I say "How can he still be in business?" is you cannot be that bad consitently and reamin in business.  Over priced spas does not alone make him a failure.  I don't care how much money someone makes if they really provide an "over the top" experience from begining to end.  Thinking about how badly he treated the two individuals I read about makes me think there must be more.  Look at the coomon things between the two stories, poor delivery, non operational spas, this bizarre insulation thing DEI or whatever he calls it.  
I think this guy has one thing going for him.  His copy on his website is very "come on down home" and appeals to a certain type of individual.  People may buy into his crap simply because it feels good to find someone who will tell you "all the other guys will screw you".   Then when you secretly think "gee he is right" you are partly sucked in.  I am in the marketing business and can tell you first hand that his "Barnum and Bailey" type copy will draw people.  What I'm burned about is my firm is BBB on-line member.  I pay $750.00 a year for that.  I'm starting to think it is BS and  I'm going to look into it.

 

[lets]

Just what do you think/believe the BBB does?

Do you believe the BBB is there to help consumers, or businesses?

 

[gturn]

Campsalot,
Check this to start with: http://www.selberg.org/~speed/spa.html. It
Phil

If the product is that bad, shouldn't we have more than that one site as an example?  That is a bad one, but I would have thought there would be more by now

I don't think the spas are all that bad. Jim is the harsh one not his spas.  I would never want to do business with him.

 

[gturn]

Just what do you think/believe the BBB does?

Do you believe the BBB is there to help consumers, or businesses?

I think the concept of the BBB is good and it is designed to help consumers, but it is hard to bite the mouth that feeds you, so member businesses seem to get a free ride. A Google search for "BBB Sucks" brings up 250,000 hits.

 

[Campsalot]

Just what do you think/believe the BBB does?

Do you believe the BBB is there to help consumers, or businesses?

OK Doc, I'll bite.  I beleive the BBB is a consumer advocacy group that helps to handle disputes between the business and the consumer or the consumer and the business.  I pay750.00 a year to have their little BBB seal on my web site http://www.quinnmc.com/  

I am not sure after reading about this shyster that the BBB really is effective though.

 

[ndabunka]

Campsalot - This guy probably only sells one spa a year.  He attacks his own customers and as other have said has such a bad mouth (and attitude) that most sites have been forced to ban him in order to operate normally.  That being said, this guy has an ego the size of a dinosaur egg. $750/year to get listed with the BBS (probably fradulaently) is just a small donation to his ego.  You know that Ar*-juna is not his REAL last name, right?  He "took" that name from a book "God talks with A-r-juna".   Just goes to show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.  Some of us took that blue pill and after 1-2 months in the gutters simply decided to spit it back up.  He's REALLY not worth the time.