Thermospas

[drewstar]

Spare,

You're right I was joking, but I was trying also to illustrate a point about spas.  One of the major laments of spa shoppers is the pricing and the negotating.  Thermal Spas is notorious for it.  How comfortable can you be and trusting of a company that just a few days ago was more than happy to take several thousand dollars from you? To me that's unacceptable and dishonest.  We're not talking about a car dealer that upsold you on the undercoating, or another spa company salesman that's happy he got full asking price; $800 over what he was willing to go to,  we are talking about a national company that comes to your home, and these sales folks will look you in the eye and sell you a spa for that they sold yesterday for 6500 to you for $15000.00  just because they can take advantage of someone's ignorance.   They will take thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars from you because they can.

I welcome Thermal Spa owners here.  I think the greater variery of product owners we have, the better the comunity.   I hope you didn't take my negative posts about Tspas personally towards yourself (we all get defensive about our own spas...hey, we are all here because we love spas).  

Most of the Thermal customers who have come by say they like thier spas, but complain about the pricing.

I am all for a making a profit, but a company that sells a tub to Mrs Smith for  double, just because she was an easy mark...I can't get behind that company and feel the salesperson who did that is a snake and a  thief.

[Steve]

There’s making a reasonable profit to maintain business, and then there’s price gouging! There is a distinct difference in business ethics between those two comparisons.

We hear all of these stories about the elderly getting ripped off with home improvement scams and so on... How is THIS any different? Until they change their ways of attempting to screw the general public and their high pressure BS, I don't care how good the product may be, they should not be supported by anyone!

[1-spare-tire]

Don't get me wrong...I'm glad you enjoy your spa and I hope you do for many years but to suggest that this is an ethical way to conduct business is ludicrous.

Steve

I never said it was ethical what they do as far as pricing, nor did I say that any company that does this a little or in Thermospas case alot was unethical.  I just stated that in any purchase like this you have to get the seller "You" down to your bottom dollar.  I even pointed out in my original response that I didn't like the pricing structure of Thermospas.  But, because I was smart enough to negotiate them down to their bottom dollar, I got the tub I wanted, and I love it.

[drewstar]

There's making a healthy profit, and then theres down right raping the customer, kicking them, and raiding the refrigerator on the way out!  

I know you could walk into Terms, or Chas, or Serjical or Toms (and just about any other dealer here) and say

I know nothing at all about spas.   Which one do I want and how much.  And NONE of these guys would sell you a $5000.00 spa for $150000.00.  Even Steve, who has been called "the most unethical spa salesmen in the history of the world" *      woudn't do that.




* steve is not the most unethical spa salesman in the world, but was accused of that by an insane thief in colorado. Steve's a nice guy who speaks his mind.

[1-spare-tire]

Steve and Drew, I hear what you guys are saying.  I guess I never thought of Thermospas that way as taking advantage of other people who were unsuspecting of the overpricing.  I have been very happy this past year knowing that I got the tub for what I negotiated them to.  Thanks for opening my eyes to watch out for companies like this in the future.  Anyway, I still love my Park Avenue tub.

[drewstar]

Steve and Drew, I hear what you guys are saying.  I guess I never thought of Thermospas that way as taking advantage of other people who were unsuspecting of the overpricing.  I have been very happy this past year knowing that I got the tub for what I negotiated them to.  Thanks for opening my eyes to watch out for companies like this in the future.  Anyway, I still love my Park Avenue tub.

Thats why we need you stick around and tell folks first hand what your experinces are.    Both the good and the bad so folks can get the tub that's right for them.

[Spatech_tuo]

Not to mention it will be a while before I have to pay for any service since I bought the Thermospa with the 10 year full warranty and 20 year shell warranty.

I’ve got a couple comments on their warranty, at least what their site posts. From their website:

"All of the plumbing, including the pump, the blower and even the spa heater are covered under our 10 year [glow]pro-rated[/glow] warranty."

It appears the controls may not be prorated but other important items like plumbing, heaters and pumps are. I'd like to get a hold of the warranty details to look even closer because I know it's not exactly what some will think when the salesman mentions it (I question whether he used the word "prorated" in his presentation). Plus, the site fails to mention when prorating kicks in. If it's only covered fully for a couple years and then the prorating starts the customer may not be too happy in year 4 if they have a pump go bad.

As far as that 20 yr shell warranty, is that on the shell surface or a warranty against the shell leaking? With all the shell surface issues they've had in the past I'm guessing that is on the shell not leaking and I seriously doubt the shell surface is warranted for even half of that (or it's prorated). Fiberglass shells rarely leak; you really care more about the warranty on the shell surface.

and then I read

"Extended Warranties Bring Total Peace of Mind
Thermo-Spas offers a three year "bumper to bumper" warranty that covers virtually all parts and labor. This means you never open your checkbook and we never leave you stranded. Over 95% of all Thermo-Spas hot tubs come with an extended spa warranty. Our unbeatable spa warranties are a happily-ever-after ending to your hot tub story."

Why would anyone need an extended warranty if the spa has this great 10yr/20yr warranty?


http://www.thermospas.com/features/warranty.aspx

[Brewman]

Wonder how much they want out of your "checkbook" now to promise you won't have to open it over the next three years.

Any warranty that has the words "Pro-Rated" would be a red flag to me.
I'd insist on the details on the pro rating.  When does it start?  from day one, or after a couple years of staying level?,  How fast does the coverage decrease, etc.....

I have a huge issue with sellers using fictional prices to illustrate savings.  Like another spa company that sells $4,000 spas but tells everyone that they're really $10,000 spas.  They should tell everyone that they're $20,000 spas, so the consumer can save even more.  

Wonder how many TP buyers get suckered into the initial gouge price?  It's cheesy marketing tactics like this that make the company look shoddy- regardless of the product quality.

If the TP salesman spends a half day pitching a spa, and the customer takes the first price, the salesmen in the pyramid make out like a bandit.  If the customer says no, they make zilch.  So the come back later with a lower offer, knowing that making some money is better than making none.  

My spa dealer didn't, and doesn't negotiate prices, or at least didn't for me.  But they had what was probably the price they needed to stay in business, they didn't pack it up front so they could give a fake discount.



 

[dax]

Off the top of my head, I think Dimension 1 has a lounger like that. (Its been 4 years since I shopped)

Where do you live?

Allentown, PA, which is about 50 miles northwest of Philly.

Actually went out over lunch to a local dealer, who carries Sundance & Hot Springs spas.  Salesman gave me some quick info and told me to bring the wife in for a wet test and he could answer all my questions and give me additional details.  Will most likely stop at another place on the way home to see what they offer.

Thanks again for all the info!

[Gary]

There’s making a reasonable profit to maintain business, and then there’s price gouging! There is a distinct difference in business ethics between those two comparisons.

No fan of Thermospa but you sell a product for what the market will bare.


If I had a product that cost me $1 but I could sell it for $100, why would I sell it for less?

[ndabunka]

No fan of Thermospa but you sell a product for what the market will bare.


If I had a product that cost me $1 but I could sell it for $100, why would I sell it for less?

The logic is VERY simple.... You can probably sell ONE of those for that $100 price.  Most likely that ONE person is simply someone who does not do their homework and rather just "buys it" to either avoid the hassle or for some other similar reason.  On the other hand, you could "fairly represent" your products and sell them at a TRULY competitive price (say $50) and you would (1) Sell more and therefore generate more profit and (2) Offer a more competitive price thereby retaining the (potential) client's trust and repeat business.  Now, which way do you think is REALLY the best approach?

[ndabunka]

Steve and Drew, I hear what you guys are saying.  I guess I never thought of Thermospas that way as taking advantage of other people who were unsuspecting of the overpricing.  I have been very happy this past year knowing that I got the tub for what I negotiated them to.  Thanks for opening my eyes to watch out for companies like this in the future.  Anyway, I still love my Park Avenue tub.

Good response.  I think the KEY here is the "what I negotiated them too" phrase. As with any product, there is a price point that makes sense.  Please continue to help this potential TP buyer by giving him ALL the details of your efforts (negotiations, initial and final price points, etc) in a private message if you like so that he has any ammunition he may need to comfortably consider their products.

[ndabunka]

Thanks for the quick replies!  Guess if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.  Really liked their Park Avenue spa with a double wide lounge.  Any other spas have such a feature?  Any recommendations on a 5-person spa with lounge?

Hope to go looking this weekend for something locally.  Thanks again!

If the reason you like the double lounger is because you would like to sit side-by-side with your sweettie, just remember that due to the natural difference in men and women, most women have a higher percentage of body fat than do us guys (IMHO this is a good thing as I can appreciate curves).  However, this higher % of bodyfat also causes MOST women to "float" in lounger-style units.  Therefore, it is highly unlikely that your particular women would enjoy a lounger.  This is one of the reasons most of us on here say that you should "wet test" a spa in order to determine the suitability of that particular spa for your needs.  Some lounger's work OK for some women and others do not.  Some of this has to do with the incline of the lounger, other factors are the number and placement of jets and depth of the water.  These are things you just cannot evaluate unless you can see one in person.  However, due to the "door-to-door" salesman approach of Thermal Spa, you rarely get such an opportunity.  If you do decide that the Park Avenue is what you really do want, you should private message the other TS owners to understand what they actually paid and then tell the TS saleperson that you know that X person in Minny paid $6,900 for it and another in Cincy paid $7,200 and yet another in Phoenix paid $6,800 for it so you KNOW that is a viable price for the spa they are askign $9,500 for.  Tell them that you want the "same deal" those guys got or you will simply buy a comparable model from SunDance/HotSprings, etc....

[Steve]

I never said it was ethical what they do as far as pricing, nor did I say that any company that does this a little or in Thermospas case alot was unethical.  I just stated that in any purchase like this you have to get the seller "You" down to your bottom dollar.  I even pointed out in my original response that I didn't like the pricing structure of Thermospas.  But, because I was smart enough to negotiate them down to their bottom dollar, I got the tub I wanted, and I love it.

I was the one that said that a 75% increase to allow for negotiation and attempt to show perceived "value" to their prospect was unethical. I guess I feel that if someone purchases from them, they are given credibility by that consumer and telling them that it's a resonable way to conduct business. You are supporting this and perpetuating this by buying a Thermospa. At the end of the day, we're all happy and I'm sure you love your spa but the only difference between you and I is that I couldn't support this type of weak salesmanship and price gouging by a company that is willing and eager to rip off the unsuspecting consumer.

Cheers!

[D.P. Roberts]

"Extended Warranties Bring Total Peace of Mind
Thermo-Spas offers a three year "bumper to bumper" warranty that covers virtually all parts and labor. This means you never open your checkbook and we never leave you stranded. Over 95% of all Thermo-Spas hot tubs come with an extended spa warranty. Our unbeatable spa warranties are a happily-ever-after ending to your hot tub story."

Why would anyone need an extended warranty if the spa has this great 10yr/20yr warranty?


http://www.thermospas.com/features/warranty.aspx

I hate those things. They call it a "warranty", but it's not. It's an insurance plan. Can you imagine going into a car dealer, and after you buy the car they say "now make sure you buy a good insurance plan for this, because you're going to need it." They're either ripping you off or telling you not to trust their product. You lose both ways.