Water help

[TubGuy 21]

Ok...I have had my chairman II for 2 weeks and my water only lasts 6 days before it clouds up.... It happened the first week and I had to drain it anyway since the dealer came out to level the tub....I figured no big deal, I must have done something wrong. Refilled last Thurs and went over chemicals again with the tech. I even brought my water to be tested at pinch a penny.  They gave me PH down since it was high and a calcium booster.  Added those on Sat and tested everday since.  PH and Alk have been good and the water has been crysta clear....unitl tonight..... I followed everything I was told...even didnt wash the suits that we have to wear (in daylight).  I just dont get it...its very frustrating to spend 10K on a spa and I cant keep the water clear.

BTW- I use the dichlor shock weekly or more if we use it everyday....plus its been only me in there most of this week.  What am I doing wrong???

It has the vision cartridge that is activated by the chlorine after the initial use and 24hr ozone....

Please help me figure this out.

Thanks

[Chad]

21,

From what I understand you're only adding dichlor once a week. That's not enough to maintain proper sanitation levels and probably the cause of your cloudiness.
 I soak 5-7 days a week and along with my shock (usually 8-10 ppm) I have to add a couple of 3ppm doses throughout the week to maintain proper sanitation levels and to keep my water clear but that's with my N2 cartidge as well. W/o the cartridge I had to add a 3 ppm dose after each soak.
The cloudiness that you're experiencing is probably from a zero FC level. Try adding a 3 ppm dose of dichlor after each soak and see if your cloudy water troubles seize.

Are you familar with the Vermonter style for dichlor dosing? Alot of people here abide by his principal and have much success.

There's alot of helpful info at this linkhttp://www.rhtubs.com/bbs/FAQ.htm

[TubGuy 21]

Thanks for the response. I have not heard of the Vermonter style for dichlor dosing...I would like to hear about it though.  I did add the dichlor today and ran the filter cycle for 1 hour, but still no luck.  How do I clear up the water?  I will try adding after each soak and see what happens.

Thanks again for your help.

[Chad]

Thanks for the response. I have not heard of the Vermonter style for dichlor dosing...I would like to hear about it though.  I did add the dichlor today and ran the filter cycle for 1 hour, but still no luck.  How do I clear up the water?  I will try adding after each soak and see what happens.

Thanks again for your help.

Your welcome.

It sounds like your tub needs a shock. To help you get a better understanding of shocking here's a linkhttp://www.rhtubs.com/chlorine.htm#Chloramines

[TubGuy 21]

I am not very familiar with figuring out PPM...would 3ppm in a 400gal tub be about 1/3 tbs or so?  Not sure if I figured that out right.

[Steve]

A very common problem and occurance is cloudy water with new ownership. The problem... you are not meeting the demand of your sanitizer (chlorine). Once you better understand the effect you and the other uses have on this, you will be able to be more proactive. Test your Chlorine as often as possible such as before and after use. It's important to add a small amount of chlorine after use to prevent cloudy water.

You'll get a handle on it soon and it won't seem so high maintenence.

Steve

[TubGuy 21]

Steve,

You are saying to add chlorine after use....not the non chlorine dichlor?

[hottubdan]

Dichlor is chlorine.

Exactly what are you using after each use?  Brand name and chemical name.  And how much are you using?

[Chad]

I am not very familiar with figuring out PPM...would 3ppm in a 400gal tub be about 1/3 tbs or so?  Not sure if I figured that out right.

You seem like a guy who would really like the Taylor k-2005 test kit. I use one amongst others on this forum and we really couldn't live w/o them. They really take the guess work out of water management and help simplify things. Here's a link to the site of one of our fellow members on the forum, Dr. Spa, where you can purchse one. His prices are really competitive.http://www.rhtubs.com/store/test-kits.htm

The formula for raising FC is as follows-

Gallons of tub x desired ppm x .000128 / % of active chlorine = amount of dichlor in ozs.
On your bottle of dichlor it should say what the amount of active chlorine is. It's typically between 52 and 62%.

400 x 3 x .000128 / 55%(.55)(?) = .279 ozs

So to get your tub to a 3 ppm FC with a starting ppm of 0 you will have to add .28 ozs of dichlor or about one heaping 1/2 TBS.

3 tsp in a TBS and 2 TBS in an Oz.

[Chad]

Steve,

You are saying to add chlorine after use....not the non chlorine dichlor?

I think you're referring to MPS which is a non-chlorine shock. It has no sanitizing capabilities. It's solely an oxidizer( eliminates chloramines(CC)) Dichlor has the ability to work both as an oxidizer and a sanitizer.
The main reason for shocking is to oxidize the chloramines(chlorine that has already been used up and is no longer free(FC) and is now combined(CC). It's important to check the CC level before shocking so that you know how much dichlor to add to reach breakpoint. Breakpoint is achieved with a dose of dichlor 10x the amount of CC. So lets say you have a 1ppm CC, you will have to add atleast a 10 ppm dose of dichlor to rid all the chloramines. Otherwise you will not be reaching breakpoint and actually raise your CC level.

Another simplier alternative is shocking with mps. I prefer Leisure Time's b/c it's buffered(will cause minimal affect on pH). You simply add 2 TBS per 250 gallons.

Both ways have there pros and cons. With dichlor you have to wait for the FC level to drop before soaking again(usaully atleast a day), and with mps you lose the super sanitizing effect that you get with dichlor. I personally like to shock with dichlor, although I do sometimes supplement my routine with an mps shock.

[TubGuy 21]

Dichlor is chlorine.

Exactly what are you using after each use?  Brand name and chemical name.  And how much are you using?

Sorry, my mistake...I had them confused.  The dealer gave me the Proteam non-chlorine shock (it doesnt say whats in it on the bottle) and the proteam Dichlor.

 I am confused though.  My dealer told me to use the dichlor once to activate the vision cartridge and then only use the shock as needed.  What is the purpose of the vision cartridge?  Is it even worth it if I have to use the dichlor anyway?  I dont understand why they told me that the shock once a week would be enought to keep the water clean.  The cartridge and ozonator should do the job per the dealer....obviously I need to do more.

[Chad]

 I am confused though.  My dealer told me to use the dichlor once to activate the vision cartridge and then only use the shock as needed.  What is the purpose of the vision cartridge?  Is it even worth it if I have to use the dichlor anyway?  I dont understand why they told me that the shock once a week would be enought to keep the water clean.  The cartridge and ozonator should do the job per the dealer....obviously I need to do more.

Ozonators and mineral catridges are used in conjuction with chlorine(dichlor) or bromine as a secondary sanitizer. They have some sanitizing capabilities but not enough to be a primary one. They help control the water's demand for dichlor or bromine. For instance, when I wasn't using my N2 catridge I had to post soak dose with a 3 ppm dose of dichlor after every soak. Since I've been using a cartridge, I can get by with just (2-3) 3ppm doses a week along with a shock. Some people even have reported no change at all when using a mineral stick. It's critical to always have some sort of sanitizer residual in a tub. When none is present there's nothing to fend off the bacteria that one is introducing to the water. Have you read the Vermonter Style for dichlor dosing yet?

[TubGuy 21]

Why Not - I did read through the info quickly, but I need to go through it more thoroughly this weekend, thanks.

I have definitely learned about chemicals the hard way so far.  I just dont understand why the dealer did not give me this info, let alone telling me that I only needed to shock once a week. I also  found a water guide online from D1 (from 2002) and it basically said the same thing as I learned here....why would the dealer not supply me with this info???

 I am very thankful that I can come here and get some help.  I learned alot about this over the past 2 days.  I have just about totally gotten rid of the cloudy water with some of the advice I found here. Alk and PH are back to normal...need to test chlorine though. I was able to soak last night and I am bringing another sample to my local PP for testing today. I will also get some new test strips that give a chlorine and calcium reading since mine do not.  Thanks again...I think I can finally get control of my water now!!!  Nothing worse than going out for a soak with your towel and a cold one only to find cloudy water when you open the cover!!!

[drewstar]

Tubguy,

I agree with whynot.  That an ozinator and Mineral stick at best are only good for assisting in keeping the tub clean and cannot be relied on for doing the bulk of the work.

For what it's worth, here's what I do with my 320 gallon Tiger river (with ozinantor, but I don't use those magic voodoo siliver ion mineral $30 catridges).

I use Dichlor and after using the tub add 1.5- 2.5 teaspoons of dichlor to the tub (depending on how many people use the tub), run the jets for 10 minutes and check the chlorine levels with a test strip. The goal is to be between 3-5 pmm on the test strip.  This is enought to sanitize the tub,  and by the next day, the chlorine levels are low and I can soak in clean water, that is not chemicaly harsh on my skin.

I use my tub 2-3 times a week depending on the weather and such.  On days that I am not using the tub, I have found I don't need to add chlorine to keep the tub clean . these are the days I check and balance Ph, Alk and Ca.  

I really try not to use any clafifiers or anti foaming agents.

About every 14 soaks  or so (or 2 weeks) I shock the tub with the non chlorine shock.

[TubGuy 21]

I had my water tested at pinch a penny today and everything came back ok...ph was 7.6 , chlorine 1.5ppm, alk 100ppm  and calcium 250ppm. I did add the ph down last night since it was a little high after the cloudy issue.

Now, to be confused again...the guy there also told me that I should be adding the MPS after eeach soak, not the dichlor because that would give me too much chlorine with the cartridge...I am now confused again....do I add the MPS after each soak and monitor the chlorine levels and add it when necessary, or do I add it after every soak?