Just back frm Class

[Bonibelle]

That's OK, Drew..I'll show you my Velcro...and it's in my Marquis tub.
What is so bad about ties and Velcro? IF they work in the application that they are being used for?

[Reese]

...If am not mistaken you can correct me if I am wrong but the highest jet that Coleman uses has a flow of 16gpm. As are many jets in the industry the Hk40 from Marquis is a patented jet...

I don't know if this applies in this situation, but most liquid handling equipment that I work with delivers "X gpm at Y pressure."  In essence it is a function of the narrowest point in the system, which in this case, I would guess is the jet orifice.  Think of a garden hose running free vs one with a jet nozzle.  They may both deliver the same gpm, but one has a much higher pressure.  I've never looked at the jets in question, but I would expect the HK40 jet to have a larger opening, allowing it deliver 40 gpm at a low pressure.  I would suspect that the Coleman 16gpm jet would be capable of delivering 40 gpm, but at 2.5Y pressure.  Is it possible that you both are correct about being able to deliver 160 gpm through 4 jets, but that the question is which one is useful, due to comfort issues associated with high pressure concentrated on a small area?

[Bonibelle]

I am betting that Reese is right on this...the key here is the comfort of all that water pressure and how it is concentrated.
I also bet that you won't find a single hot tub customer who can honestly relate to the technical aspects any of this GPM stuff, they just want something that makes them feel good...who cares how the manufacturer accomplishes it!  

[Bonibelle]

Mendo can you please just tell Drew that the Velcro is doing what it is supposed to do?  Not that there are better methods, but just that whatever it is doing in whoever's tub...it is doing the job...

[Reese]

I am betting that Reese is right on this...

I also bet that you won't find a single hot tub customer who can honestly relate to the technical aspects any of this GPM stuff, they just want something that makes them feel good...who cares how the manufacturer accomplishes it!  

This is really getting out of hand!  Was your   a nod to the thread where we first locked horns, with one of us wanting technical info, while the other said "focus on the subjective"?  If so.. Touche'!

As far as no customer relating to the technical aspects, have you forgotten Master Vinny?

[Chas]

Wow - starting to get lost in the math.

I think the hot ticket is to try these tubs wet. As Mendo will attest, you can enjoy all sorts of combinations of jets.

You will find high-pressure jets which will feel great, and low-pressure jets which will feel great. You will find seats with two or four mega-jets which feel great, and you will find seats with 17 small jets which feel great.

But not all of those seats will feel great to everybody, and sometimes doing a comparison will result in a person liking one set of jets and not liking another.

Just like horsepower numbers on a brochure mean nothing, number of jets, even GPM flow rates do not guarantee that a given tub will be more suited to a person's likes or dislikes.

I have sold spas with oversized plumbing, huge jets, and high-volume low-pressure jets. They were great. I have also sold spas with high-pressure low-volume jets, and they are great as well.

Let your backside decide.

 8-)

[drewstar]

That's OK, Drew..I'll show you my Velcro...and it's in my Marquis tub.
What is so bad about ties and Velcro? IF they work in the application that they are being used for?

I don't know. That's why I asked!!

I don't know who's using them or for what. I have no idea if it's a good idea, a bad idea or just different. I was hopping to find out, but I guess we can't as it's too dangerous to speak about here. Dealers would loose thier crediablilty, customer would start bashing, and the whole danm thing would all come undone. Mass chaos would ensure. It's better we forget and just sit here and hope that none of our spas have these, unless it's a good thing, then  I hope that we  indeed do have them.

I just wanted to say though that I am not bashing and that this forum is great!  The bestest!  Very crediable.

[Mendocino101]

I don't know if this applies in this situation, but most liquid handling equipment that I work with delivers "X gpm at Y pressure."  In essence it is a function of the narrowest point in the system, which in this case, I would guess is the jet orifice.  Think of a garden hose running free vs one with a jet nozzle.  They may both deliver the same gpm, but one has a much higher pressure.  I've never looked at the jets in question, but I would expect the HK40 jet to have a larger opening, allowing it deliver 40 gpm at a low pressure.  I would suspect that the Coleman 16gpm jet would be capable of delivering 40 gpm, but at 2.5Y pressure.  Is it possible that you both are correct about being able to deliver 160 gpm through 4 jets, but that the question is which one is useful, due to comfort issues associated with high pressure concentrated on a small area?

BINGO, Thank you that is Marquis story Hi Flow/ low pressure and from filtering to Therapy this the thought in their design. I am not sayings its better ( I do think so) but that is how they choose to offer their spas and as other makers choose a different way. Please note as it was stated in the opening post of this thread in our testing it was acknowledged that for the person who's backyard any of these spas were in they would most likely be happy but that side by side the differences are much more discernible.

[Steve]

I totally agree with Chas but I'd also like to point out the obvious. Sometimes we neglect to look at history and I strongly suggest that any of you questioning the motives of Mendo, spend a day or two looking back at his almost 2000 posts and see if you can find anything derogatory or questionable.

The man is as neutral as they come and not once have I seen him bash any one product or speak poorly about anyone. Give the guy a break for crying out loud!

Steve

[Mendocino101]

I don't know. That's why I asked!!

I don't know who's using them or for what. I have no idea if it's a good idea, a bad idea or just different. I was hopping to find out, but I guess we can't as it's too dangerous to speak about here. Dealers would loose thier crediablilty, customer would start bashing, and the whole danm thing would all come undone. Mass chaos would ensure. It's better we forget and just sit here and hope that none of our spas have these, unless it's a good thing, then  I hope that we  indeed do have them.

I just wanted to say though that I am not bashing and that this forum is great!  The bestest!  Very crediable.

Drew,

I would say that the makers who use Velcro to hang the insulation on should post on it since they know who they are and can offer a explanation of how it works.

[Bonibelle]

Reese, I'd never forget Vinny, he is my friend and I respect his offerings here. OK, so he likes the technical stuff...but it is usually because he is looking to do some kind of experiment. ..
 
And no touche, pure coincidence!  My retention time is not that long..    

[Reese]

...any of you questioning the motives of Mendo, spend a day or two looking back at his almost 2000 posts and see if you can find anything derogatory or questionable.  The man is as neutral as they come and not once have I seen him bash any one product or speak poorly about anyone.

I agree as far as this thread is concerned, but perhaps you are the one who needs to do some reading.  I seem to recall some pesky Bullfrog and Master Spa issues, among others.

[Mendocino101]

slooow down there,  Master issue were about shows and were long ago and were documented from others. Bullfrog I think if anything If taken in total would be easily be seen as publicly being of the opinion that they are a pretty decent spa.

[Reese]

LOL!  I wasn't trying to hijack this thread and make it a dissection of your previous posts!  I appreciate that Steve is a personal friend, I just thought his defense of you was a little over the top, and indicated that he hadn't read/remembered some of your less graceful posts.  We all have them.

FWIW, I thought in this thread you were right to try to limit the discussion to the training and what salespeople can learn from the chance to try out competitors side by side.  Although a lot of us would love to know what you observed... obviously from the reaction to the examples you offered when pressed -- if you had posted everything you discerned, we'd really have a mess.

[Steve]

LOL!  I wasn't trying to hijack this thread and make it a dissection of your previous posts!  I appreciate that Steve is a personal friend, I just thought his defense of you was a little over the top, and indicated that he hadn't read/remembered some of your less graceful posts.  We all have them.

Well at least ya got my point and didn't take it word for word er anything!  
And yes, some have more than others...