New owner, question on free Chlorine levels

[jeff925]

I just got my new HS Soveriegn set up last sat. Everything is working good I think.

One question though, I am using a half teaspoon of dichlor after every soak and i use a non chlorine shock once a week, MPS i think, along with the ozone.

I have tested my water everyday (just to get the hang of things) and my test strips always show Zero free chlorine. Is this normal or is it something i should be worried about? I know the chlorine burns off pretty quickly but I would think that I would show soemthing for this reading.

I am a total newbie so please go easy on me. Thanks
Jeff

[Big1Dog]

I've had my Vangard for about a month now.  I use the chlorine that came from HS.  I've only used MPS once to shock the tub.  I normally put 1 1/2 Tablespoons of chlorine in after each use and hit with 3 each Saturday.  So far I have great looking water.  Gets used several times a week.
Since I only had a 1 pound start up bottle I droped by the dealer to p/u a 4 pounder.  When I mentioned that I don't use MPS in my spa he looked a little concerned.   I remember reading that you can run a all chlorine spa (as a sanitizer) and it cost half as much as the MPS and does a better job.

Still, I can't figure out what exactly a Fresh Water system is.  Feel free to explain.  

[Gomboman]

Dog, good luck with the spa. If you have time, check out the "What is the "Dichlor Dosing - Vermonter Style" under the FAQ section on doc's site. You might want to consider using a little less dichlor. I typically use about 2 tablespoons when I shock and only a teaspoon or so for each user after using the spa--450 gallons. This will vary depending on your particular usage.
 
http://www.rhtubs.com/bbs/FAQ.htm

[Big1Dog]

Thanks, I'll check it out.  Still not sure what the MPS is foe if I use the chlorine.  I have ozone and the silver rod in the filter.  Is natue2 the same N2 and will it work to replace  my HS part?

[Chad]

I just got my new HS Soveriegn set up last sat. Everything is working good I think.

One question though, I am using a half teaspoon of dichlor after every soak and i use a non chlorine shock once a week, MPS i think, along with the ozone.

I have tested my water everyday (just to get the hang of things) and my test strips always show Zero free chlorine. Is this normal or is it something i should be worried about? I know the chlorine burns off pretty quickly but I would think that I would show soemthing for this reading.

I am a total newbie so please go easy on me. Thanks
Jeff

Hi Jeff and welcome,

It seems that your not adding enough dichlor post soak. The idea of the Vermonter method, which it seems you are following, is to get your FC in the 2-3 range 10 minutes or so after adding your post soak dose and then have it back down close to zero before your next soak. Some say it's ok to soak if none is present but I prefer to have some sort of residual.
My tub is 336 gallons and it takes 1.5 tsp to get it to 3ppm with a starting FC of zero. I believe your tub is 355 gallons.

The formula is -
gallons x desired ppm x .000128 / % of active chlorine in your dichlor(typically %52-62%) = amount of dichlor in ozs.

So if your tub is 355 gallons here is the formula to get it to a 3 ppm(with a starting ppm of zero).

355 x 3 x .000128 / 55%( that's what Leisure Time's dichlor is and what I use) = aproximately .25 ozs or 1.5 tsp

There is 3 tsp in a TBS and 2 TBS in an ounce.

Bather load and other secondary sanitizers(ozone and mineral cartridges) will affect the results after a 24 hour period. The only way to find [glow]your specific [/glow]post soak dose is trial and error. Here's a link to the Vemonter style of dichlor dosing.http://www.rhtubs.com/bbs/FAQ.htm

I hope this helps,

Chad

[jeff925]

Thanks for the info, thats really helpful.

one more question, assuming I add everything correctly and get an FC of 2-3 after i add the Dichlor and I dont use the spa for 3-4 days and the tub goes back to 0 FC.

Is it ok for the tub to be at 0 for a couple of days?

[Reese]

... assuming I add everything correctly and get an FC of 2-3 after i add the Dichlor and I dont use the spa for 3-4 days and the tub goes back to 0 FC.  Is it ok for the tub to be at 0 for a couple of days?

Why Not's advice and methodology is sound, but IMO his recommendation is the bare miniumum -- I'd shoot for a calculated dose of 3-5 ppm, hoping for a 2-3 ppm residual after the chlorine has oxidized/sanitized what you left behind.  The other thing that should be mentioned is that chlorine effectiveness is sensitive to pH.  I don't remember the exact percentage, but as a rule of thumb, you need double the amount of chlorine at 7.8 than you do at 7.2.

Just like determining the appropriate minimum dose, how long you can go between doses seems to vary from tub to tub.  Some people report being able to go extended periods without adding sanitizer, others have trouble if the tub isn't dosed every other day, even though they use the same routine and supplemental sanitizers like ozone and silver ions.  I dose my tub every other day just to be safe.

Big1, MPS is an alternative shock that oxidizes but does not sanitize.  Some people prefer it due to the fact that it doesn't require the calculation of a "breakpoint", and it allows you to use the tub shortly after application.  From a shock perspective, there is a trade-off between dissolved solids with MPS and cyanuric acid with dichlor.  Nature2/N2 is similar to the HS system, but comes in a different size/shape container that is inserted into the filter, or placed in the filter compartment.

[svspa]

Jeff,

All good advice you have gotten from the previous posters.

It does sound like you are not getting enough dichlor in there, I normally add 1.5 teaspoons after a soak.

If you want to be safe than having 0 ppm free chlorine in your tub for any significant length of time is very bad.

When your FC is at zero you have nothing to kill bacteria that may enter your tub and it will multiply rapidly in the hot moist environment of a hot tub.

Most folks just toss in a little extra dichlor if they know they won't soak for a while.
After  a while you'll get the hang of how long your residual lasts in your tub. You don't want to be shy about adding dichlor, keep at least some residual. When you dose get it up to between 3-5ppm and try to keep it above 0. If you won't soak for a couple of days there is no harm in getting your FC to 5-10ppm.

With the Vermonter method the plan is to get to 3-5ppm after soak then let the residual drop off near zero by the next time you soak so you don't have to soak in too much chlorine. But then immediately after soaking you raise it back up to 3-5ppm to kill off any bacteria you may have introduced into the tub.

Remember the only way you know your tub is free of bacteria is to have some residual chlorine.  

Steve

[Spiderman]

From my interpretation in my HS manual, their recommendations for dichlor or MPS is just a "guide" and each individual family will have to get their own pattern or routine of adding sanitizer.  I only use dichlor and have crystal clear water.  I switched to "dichlor only" after the HS recommended MPS routine messed up my water so bad that I had to dump the water and start all over.  I don't use the silver ion cartridge anymore either, because I don't think it make a difference based on my own results.  I use the same dichlor now without it than I did with it.  

Don't get caught up with formulas and whatnot; it's not that complicated.  If you test your water before each use, you'll be able to figure out the appropriate dosage after each use and then check it weekly for PH, ALK etc.  If your water starts to look a little cloudy, then you know you're not using enough dichlor after your soaks.

[jeff925]

Thanks for all the advice, this forum is a great source of information.

[Chad]

Reese and svspa,

The 2-3 ppm FC after one's post soak dose is not my recommendation but rather Vermonter's. I thought I made that clear in my post. Sorry, thanks for givin' Jeff the heads up.

[svspa]

It's all good Chad, I apologize if it appeared my post was in contradiction to yours.

You're right Vermonter suggests 2-3ppm.

My own bias is towards a little more dichlor rather than less, so I should be sure in the future that I make that clear.

I just like to be sure that our newer members take a little more conservative approach until they get up to speed on how to manage their tub.

Steve

[jeff925]

ok, i think i got it. added 1.5 tsp's waited about 15 min and tested. it brought my FC up to a hair under 2, I then added another tsp and it got me to 3 but my TA dropped a hair. added a pinch TA up and all was good.

I am curious to test it tomorrow and see what it is at.


thanks again for all the info, you guys are awesome

one more question, i have the HS chems that came with my tub. it has the TA up and the ph up combined into one bottle. is this recommeded? what if the PH is low but the TA is high? or is this even possible?

[Spiderman]

one more question, i have the HS chems that came with my tub. it has the TA up and the ph up combined into one bottle. is this recommeded? what if the PH is low but the TA is high? or is this even possible?

PH and TA usually go hand in hand, assuming they have hands

[svspa]

Jeff,

Check out the chemical that's in that bottle, is it sodium bicarbonate? Then if you have a box of baking soda around the house check it out, sodium bicarbonate, same stuff. It does affect both ALK and PH.

Check out Doc's website, he has a lot of good info. At this link he has a lot of info on water chemistry. Also more info on each chem at his online store.

[link]http://www.rhtubs.com/info/water.htm[/link]

Steve