Ozone Question. (Very Technical)

[Tman122]

I agree. I think we have heard some real information that we maybe haven't covered on the topic before. I can't thing of anything else that needs to be added now though.

I got one thing to add!! I am going to install a small oxygen bottle inside my cabinet to supply air to my ozonator. A little hose and a simple regulator, a shut off so I can change bottles. Oh wait the bottle has one on it.

[Reese]

I am going to install a small oxygen bottle inside my cabinet to supply air to my ozonator.

Might as well put a green "Ox" button to activate it and indicator bulb on the spa while you are at it, so you can at least impress your friends and pretend it is making a difference.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

You could get an O2 generator with built-in air dryer and cooler. I think with this you'll get a 70% to 80% ozone output.

[Tman122]

You could get an O2 generator with built-in air dryer and cooler. I think with this you'll get a 70% to 80% ozone output.

18,000 dollar ozone system......cool!!! 30 bucks a year for chlorine. And with this system I can completely eliminate chlorine, 600 years an it's starts paying for itself! I wonder if I will need to contact the EPA?

[Reese]

[18,000 dollar ozone system......cool!!! 30 bucks a year for chlorine. And with this system I can completely eliminate chlorine, 600 years an it's starts paying for itself! I wonder if I will need to contact the EPA?

Actually, you'll still need most of the chlorine , but even if you could eliminate it, there will be no payback period, with all the covers and headrests you'll go through!  

Now that I think about it.... Clover, I think we have the answer to why Doc offers ozonators in his store!  It is a business development tool for the replacement cover division! 8-)

[Reese]

Bump for Drewstar

[drewstar]

Bump for Drewstar

Bless you my son.  

[neocacher]

I used to sell Alpine Air purifiers.  They sanitized air 2 ways, with ionization nozzle and with an ozone plate. The theory was to cover all the bases.

 The debate about ozone was about the same as it is on this forum. Maybe even stronger. Some people think that airborne Ozone is dangerous and a pollutant.  Those people are NOT far off!

 Ozone and ionization work essentially the same.  Both produce extra electrons that are used to attract "baddies".  Basically "baddies" (germs, dust, smoke) are positively charged ions. The electrons and protons zap each other and the charge is neutralized.  

A lot of claims were made about what ozone could do, how good it was, blah blah blah.

The ozone production from these purifiers has a distinct smell. Some people call it sickly sweet. Some did NOT like the smell, others didnt mind it.  At our house we didnt like the smell and turned down the production to the minimum. In retrospect we may has well shut it off completely.

If you left a plastic object in front of the air purifier, within months, it would become discolored or disfigured because of the ozone.  We all know that ozone can destroy the plastics in hot tubs covers and pillows.  Not so much destroy it , but oxidize, it (ie. discolored and brittle).

There is good ozone and bad ozone. I do not want to get into it here, but you can GOOGLE the word ozone and find lots of opinions about it.

On the other hand, Ionization WITHOUT ozone is safer and most likely more effective.  I would like to see the industry move that way, towards more ionization products, and away from ozonators, which are too controversial.

Just my .02 worth.

Neo

[drewstar]

I used to sell Alpine Air purifiers.  They sanitized air 2 ways, with ionization plate and with an ozone plate. The theory was to cover all the bases.

 The debate about ozone was about the same as it is on this forum. Maybe even stronger. Some people think that airborne Ozone is dangerous and a pollutant.  Those people are NOT far off!

 Ozone and ionization work essentially the same.  Both produce extra electrons that are used to attract "baddies".  Basically "baddies" (germs, dust, smoke) are positively charged ions. The electrons and protons zap each other and the charge is neutralized.  

A lot of claims were made about what ozone could do, how good it was, blah blah blah.

The ozone production from these purifiers has a distinct smell. Some people call it sickly sweet. Some did NOT like the smell, others didnt mind it.  At our house we didnt like the smell and turned down the production to the minimum. In retrospect we may has well shut it off completely.

If you left a plastic object in front of the air purifier, within months, it would become discolored or disfigured because of the ozone.  We all know that ozone can destroy the plastics in hot tubs covers and pillows.  Not so much destroy it , but oxidize, it (ie. discolored and brittle).

There is good ozone and bad ozone. I do not want to get into it here, but you can GOOGLE the word ozone and find lots of opinions about it.

On the other hand, Ionization WITHOUT ozone is safer and most likely more effective.  I would like to see the industry move that way, towards more ionization products, and away from ozonators, which are too controversial.

Just my .02 worth.

Neo

There have been some studies out on the air purifiers for Ozone. Although thier credibily is questionable. The significant difference is the air purifiers are usualy desinged to sit on a desk or work area and have a fan blowing the O3 directly onto a  person, while the O3 in hot tubs is usually disapaited or absorbed in the water. Or so the argument  goes.  There is little doubt that O3 at certain levels is dangerous.  

I didn't think the Ion units destroy bacteria,  but rather collected them, via electomagneticly charging the particles that are then "stuck" to the ion collection plate (these are the units you see in Sharper Image and such) The do not destroy bacterial, but attrack particulate matter. Typically you have to wipe the plates down because they will be dirty from the dust, smoke and pollution they attract.  But they are not "Destroying" They are Trapping. Think static electricy and electomagnet bonds.


Ozone actually attacks the cell wall of material and will kill organic material.

[neocacher]

Actually, the Alpine purifiers did NOT have a collection plate unlike some of the newer units may have, it just had an ionizer projectile.  I KNOW, they did not have a paper filter.

According to Alpine, the ionizer could neutrilize particles up to 30 feet away, and through walls in another room!

I have seen smoke ionized using one of these purifiers, it is quite amazing, it is like it disappears into thin air. I still have a special unit that actual cigarette smoke was inserted and then turned on and "poof" (pun intended) the smoke was gone.

You are most likely right about the ionically neutralized particle, it just may fall to the floor rather than be destroyed like ozone zapped particle. I really do not remember.

I am not yet familiar with hot tub ionization products, but I am going to try to learn more about them.  Any information that you could send me on these would be appreciated.  Maybe ionic cleaning is more effective in air, then it is in water? What are you thoughts on this?

Neo

[drewstar]

IF there's no collection plate, then I'd say you're gonna have dirty walls.  Those particles (dust,  smoke, etc) will cling to something.  

[neocacher]

Actually, partcles will only stick to the wall if they have a charge on them, much like hair will stick to a balloon if you rub someones head with it.

 I checked with my boss (my wife) and she verifies that
once we started using the purifier, we noticed a lot more dust on tables, etc. We were warned of this ahead of time.

However OUR WALLS were clean! And the air around us was clean. I am sure the carpet was not so clean! So we did do more vacuuming, which i am sure stirred it up again.  From ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Catch as much as you can and damn the rest! haha.

Neo

[drewstar]

walls, floors, babies, donuts, all the same, no?  The ionozer was  charging the particles so that they were charged, and attracted to the nearest surface, no?  

[neocacher]

I would not bet money on this, but as you know, an ionizer produces electrons, not particles.  And as most BADDIES  (air-borne pollutants ,dust, smoke, etc) are + charged (positive charge)  to start with, THOSE dirties can stick to walls, etc.  When a negative electron hit it, it neutralizes the charge so it drops to the furniture, etc.


Anyways, that is how i was taught.   Maybe I am wrong, wouldn't be the first time or the last! :-)

Neo

[Vinny]

The FDA put out a warning a few years ago about ozone generation air cleaning machines.

I have no clue on ion generators but am wondering if a positively charged O molecule is bad for your health why wouldn't a positively charged electrical electron be bad - think radiation ... low level, the same type that high power electrical lines produce I'm thinking.

All this talk of speculating whether ozone works or not is so unscientific and you can't equate drinking water ozone with spa ozone.

drewstar, you know that your ozone does a great job because you have disconnected it and saw a big difference, if you haven't maybe you should and see the difference. It may be substancial or maybe like me you won't see too much of a difference. Without doing so you really can't say anything works or doesn't. Mine doesn't but I also said I need to get a higher output ozonator to tell if there is a difference. Having something and blindly believing in it is not a good thing ... there are thousands of infomercials on TV hawking all the great stuff out there and plenty of people on those infomercials swearing by them, some even had fake lab tests to prove they worked.

Remeber that air is only 21% O2, a 79% reduction than in drinking water ozone. We have no clue how much O3 is absorbed and I would hope that it's a standard % so a 50% higher output ozonator should yield 50% more ... even if we are talking about only 1% absorption.