Obervations on circualtion pumps.

[spahappy]

then we agree.

I like circ pumps because they inject the 03 into my tub, circulate the heated water, and move the water through the filters 24 /7 at very little cost without taxing the more exspensive larger pumps.

If my heater screws up or trips. I know my water wont freeze.  

So we can agree, we both like circ pumps.  You because you like over compensating cars,    and me because I like efficent hot tubs.

What happens if your circ pump quits?  

[In_Too_Long]

Just a couple observations from this past cold snap.
I got a call from a dealer that had a tub that was not working. It used a 2 speed pump to filter and the customer was only using the factory setting for filtration 2 hours every 12. Well with temps at -20, the water frozen enough in the volute of the pump that it would not allow the impeller to move, thus kicking off the tub and it started to freeze. This was a full foam tub but it had no insulation on the door. The dealer just heated up the wet end and the tub worked.
Many tubs in conjuction with their circulation pump have a small bleed line that feeds water to the wet ends to keep this from happening.
The other story comes from a dealer in southern Missouri where tens of thousands of homes were without power. A customer was concerned what to do after 3 days no power and the dealer said don't worry, but if you are truly concerned, push down the gate valves, disconnect your pumps and packs and take them in the house. They finally got power back 7 days later and when they put the pack back on and connected the power the tub temp was 85 degrees. This after 7 days with no electricity. Most people here will no what brand I am talking about, but it just goes to show the difference a 4th wall of insulation will make.

[Chas]

Most people here will no what brand I am talking about, but it just goes to show the difference a 4th wall of insulation will make.

Yes, HotSpring has been insulating all four walls for about 30 years now. It does help.

 8-)

[hotubinn]

Actully I like Circ Pumps (Laing 909 & 303), between those and pressure switches I am well on my way to a third Corvette.

Speak it brother, I LOVE them too!

[In_Too_Long]

You crack me up Chas

[Reese]

... it just goes to show the difference a 4th wall of insulation will make.

If you don't take the pumps off, is a trouble light under the step enough to prevent freezing, or do you always instruct to homeowner to remove the pumps?

[In_Too_Long]

A light will usually do the job. The customer in question just wanted to go to the extreme. And of course the customer is always right.

About 6 years ago my service department went out to a job of a freeze up. They found the circ pump still going but 8" of ice on top. The heater quit working but the pipes never froze.  They replaced the heater and the tub was thawed with no leaks. I would tell you what brand but they would make Chas even more proud.

[hottub.pool_boy]

We have one or two customers who like to open there pools EARLY. We pop a hole in the ice, down goes the pump, plug it in and whalla...couple days later we start up the pool. Amazing what a little current will do.

[Chas]

You know, that's an idea that came to me the other day while I was draining a spa out in the shop. My 'Little Giant' submersible pump gets plenty hot when draining a 500 gallon tub for me. It dawned on me that if somebody had a tub in danger of freezing up, but they still had power available, they could just put the submersible pump in the tub, close the lid and let her rip. No hose, just let the water circulate around in the tub.

I bet it would get a well - insulated tub up to 104 easily. I have no idea how fast it would heat the tub, but if you are just trying to keep a tub from freezing until the repair guy gets out, I suppose it doesn't matter if you only get it up to 90 or whatever. You could also put a short garden hose on the pump and force the water through the jet system once you get it up to a nice warm temp to be sure the pumps and plumbing stay toasty.

I was thinkin' that repair guys in the snowy parts of the world had most likely thought of this, and I see they have. Never would have dawned on me to use this trick for a whole swimming pool, but why not?

 8-)

[anne]

Chas, so are you saying that the pump itself would generate heat, or just keeping the water moving would prevent freezing? If you had power, but no heat, couldnt you just run the tub pumps to the same effect?

[Chad]

Never would have dawned on me to use this trick for a whole swimming pool, but [glow]why not[/glow]?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Chas]

Chas, so are you saying that the pump itself would generate heat, or just keeping the water moving would prevent freezing? If you had power, but no heat, couldnt you just run the tub pumps to the same effect?

Yes, the pump itself does create a good amount of heat. I think in a swimming pool the water movement would be the key ingredient, but in a tub the heat would really work for you.

And yes, if you had power but no heat, the circ pump built into the spa could work for you. My post was just a mental exercise about what to do if you had power but no circ pump. In many tubs the jet pumps will atuomatically shut off after a set amount of time, so you could just go out and turn on the jets every so often. But dropping in the sub pump seems like a pretty easy way to keep things warm in a pinch.

Putting in the submersible pump would be an easy way to keep the temperature up in a spa which had some failure during freezing weather. Keep in mind I live in paradise and don't have a lot of experience with this - in fact we recently had a power outage that lasted close to six or seven hours, and it was a big deal. The paper had maps, photos and interviews for a couple of days. It was the frist such thing I can remember in many years. But of course, the weather was nice and nobody was in danger of freezing anything.

 8-)

[Reese]

Chas, so are you saying that the pump itself would generate heat, or just keeping the water moving would prevent freezing? If you had power, but no heat, couldnt you just run the tub pumps to the same effect?

As a cold weather denizen, I'm always on the lookout for good ideas to manage freezing risk.  I hadn't seen the sump pump suggestion before.  The genius of the idea is that you could use it when the power is out, needing only a small generator, instead a huge expensive monster with enough output to run the whole tub.  Other folks have suggested wiring a plug on to the circ pump so that you could run it with a small generator.  I like this idea better due to its simplicity.  Good idea, Chas! 8-)

p.s.  Some of us who get to experience all four seasons with nature right out our back door consider that more "paradise", than the same weather all the time, Chas.  

[drewstar]

What happens if your circ pump quits?  

Probably the same thing that happens if you large pumps quits. "Circ" pump means a pump that circulates the water.  Every tub has a "circ pump". Some tubs just use the bigger pumps to do it, other brands uses a dedicated pump that goes 24/7.

[Reese]

..."Circ" pump means a pump that circulates the water.  Every tub has a "circ pump". Some tubs just use the bigger pumps to do it, other brands uses a dedicated pump that goes 24/7.

I'm pretty sure SpaHappy knows the difference. :-/  She was just trying to pull a "Perogie" and steer the conversation to the advantages of TP.  This demonstrates my point in the hostility thread-- respected folks who have built up good will by other contributions don't get smacked down -- at least not with the same gusto.