Where's the insulation?

[Cola]

I saw a new Caldera Olympia a few minutes ago, no insulation in the equipment compartment.  I mean that I was looking at the back side of the shell and no insulation.  What's the deal?  No insulation on the cabinet walls either.  Is this the Texas version of the tub.

Steve

[Spiderman]

Shouldn't the insulation be on the back side of the panels??

[Cola]

No the spa is completely not insulated int he equipment area, no foam of anything under shell or on panels.  Just a plastic panel about 20 inches from the spa edge concealing the rest of the underside.  I was told that the insulation is in there but how much?
Anybody seen this?
Steve

[Spatech_tuo]

No the spa is completely not insulated int he equipment area, no foam of anything under shell or on panels.  Just a plastic panel about 20 inches from the spa edge concealing the rest of the underside.  I was told that the insulation is in there but how much?
Anybody seen this?
Steve

Yes, this is common for a full foam spa. If you were to get one and you put insulation on those door panels thinking you were keeping the heat in you'd be correct but you'd then start to run into issues with the pumps overheating.

[Cola]

I guess that this must be a touchy subject with the HS and Caldera dealers so maybe the moderator should just file this under the BS section.  I find it hard to believe that a two/thirds insulated spa would be even sold in Canada by such a reputable company.
Steve

[kellpup2112]

I own a Caldera.  When I got out of the tub last night, the water temp was 100.  Our low temp last night was 50, which I realize is a heat wave by your standards, but my water was still 98 this morning. I've got my heater set at 95 right now, so it's not even coming on.  I ran jet 1 for an hour today in order to filter. I just checked and the water temp is 100.  Our high today was in the mid 60's. IMO, the cover/insulation is doing a pretty good job and as stated in the previous post, the pumps create a lot of heat. I can definitely see where insulation in the panels could cause overheating problems.

[Cola]

Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Caldera tubs.  I have seen other models that were insulated, but a full one third of the underside of this tub and the walls has zero insulation.  Like I said, this should just go to the BS section cause well ...
Steve

[johnnieg]

hum, most spas i have seen high end, low end, all you have to do is remove a panel and look inside it should be there. hear is a helpfull website i found check it out  http://spasupport.com/thermaleff.html  

[tileman]

Like Spatech said you cannot have foam completely covering your motors. They would definitely overheat. The motors put off so much heat themselves that you do no need the foam in the area around them. Heck some spas have no foam and use just the heat from the motors in addition to their heaters to adequatly heat their spas.    Tileman

[Spiderman]

 I find it hard to believe that a two/thirds insulated spa would be even sold in Canada by such a reputable company.
Steve

I thought the same thing about Great Lakes Spas, minus the 2/3rd's statement, since they're made in Michigan.  A co-worker of mine has one, but he doesn't run it in the winter........strange  :-?      Maybe smart, I don't know.

[Repeat_Offender]

Like Spatech said you cannot have foam completely covering your motors. They would definitely overheat. The motors put off so much heat themselves that you do no need the foam in the area around them. Heck some spas have no foam and use just the heat from the motors to adequatly heat their spas.    Tileman

Just how much heat do you think these pump motors generate? And if they did, how often do they actually run on high speed? These are open dripproof motors, and lose much of the negligable heat they generate to the ambient air and transfer little if any heat through the shell and into the water. Any manufacturer/salesmann that tells you otherwise has an agenda.

[kellpup2112]

Solution: Everyone move to Texas! Me, Term, and our fellow Texans that frequent this forum will even share our Shiner Bock/Lone Star with you! Forget about retaining heat. Takes about 3 or 4 coldies to tolerate the water temp for an hour.

[tileman]

If they don't produce that much heat, then why are there vents? Huh, maybe to release the heat they produce and allow them cool. This is neccesary for maximum life. Some of the manufacturers that do this are Hot Springs and Jacuzzi, but I guess they don't know what they're doing.
   Tileman
This is straight from the Hot Spings wesite.''In addition, our patented hot tub pump shroud vents heat from the equipment compartment. This creates a cooler working environment for the motors and electronic components, contributing to a longer life for your Hot Spring® spa.''

[Cola]

I'm not sure if you read that I can see the back of the shell, No insulation under the shell.  Let me help:
Hot water>shell>open space with motors>cabinet walls.
No insulation in this area at all.
This is not a cheap P.O.S. spa.
It is made by Caldera and it is the worst insulated spa that I have seen.
Let me add this.  The is a vent (like a dryer vent) that appears to pull outside air from below the base in through the motors which exhaust through to the 2/3 area of the tub that I cannot see.  What more can I say.  I am pissed with my FF tub that has one exposed hose for a short distance.  This has nothing in the equipment compartment at all, not under the shell, not on the panels.  Who knows what is under the rest.  Can someone that sells Caldera chime in here?  This isn't a thermal pane vs ff question.
Steve

[tileman]

There are 4 different series of Caldera, (Utopia, Aquatic, Paradise, and Highland). Highland series are their lowest grade and is what the Olympia is. They(Highland series) are stripped down versions of their higher classes at more affordable prices. Maybe full foam, like many other features are not standard in this class. I do however know that the other three series have FF standard.  
 

Polyurethane Foam Fill – To minimize heat loss from the shell and the plumbing, polyurethane foam completely fills the space between the shell, the ground and the cabinet. Many other manufacturers save money in the production process by including less insulation inside the cabinet, but their up-front savings lead to higher operating costs for the spa owner
 
 


 Caldera spas are intelligently engineered to be among the most energy efficient spas available. The components work together as a complete system to provide the soothing benefits you want from a spa, while minimizing power consumption.

 

While many other spas periodically operate the inefficient low-speed of a large jet pump for filtration, heating and/or ozone injection, the highly efficient EnergyPro circulation pump operates continually while drawing only 65 watts. This saves you money in several ways:

 It enables the EnergyPro heater to maintain a constant water temperature. For the vast majority of spa owners–those who use their spa regularly–this is far more cost-efficient than allowing the water to cool down between uses.
  
 It actually reduces heater usage, because more than 80% of the electrical energy used by the pump is transferred into the water as “heat”.
  
 On spas equipped with ozone systems, it allows for continuous injection of ozone into the water. Because ozone dissipates rapidly when it is no longer being infused into the water, round-the-clock circulation helps the ozone generator provide on-going protection for the users.

  

    
  

 
  
 
Water Quality Maintenance—Maintaining good water quality saves energy by reducing the need to drain, refill and heat new water. Our exclusive Monarch Corona Discharge Ozone System, which is standard on Utopia and Aquatic Melodies Series models, and optional on Paradise and Highland Series models, is superbly designed to effectively oxidize organic compounds in the water. Spas equipped with this high-output ozone system require less chemical sanitizer to keep the water sparkling clear and inviting.

Heat Retention – On any spa, the heater is the component that requires the most energy to operate. Therefore, the key to low operating costs is effective heat conversion. Here's why Caldera spas are among the best-insulated spas you can own:
Polyurethane Foam Fill – To minimize heat loss from the shell and the plumbing, polyurethane foam completely fills the space between the shell, the ground and the cabinet. Many other manufacturers save money in the production process by including less insulation inside the cabinet, but their up-front savings lead to higher operating costs for the spa owner.

Insulating Cover – Each Caldera spa comes with a thick, thermal cover made of 2 lb.* density polystyrene foam encased in a high quality, marine-grade vinyl. Convenient tie-down straps help the cover seal against the top of the spa to conserve the water's heat. An exclusive pad in the cover hinge locks in the heat.

*1.5 lb-density on spas less than 7" wide.  



 
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