Fiberglass backed shells

[DPS]

In Fiberglassed shells there are different qualities as well.  The amount of fillers in the resin and the types of resins can vary.  Also, some manufacturers (Marquis for one, I don't know if they are the only one) hand roll the fiberglass instead of just shooting it on and letting it dry.  This gets rid of voids or air bubbles and makes for a more consistent thickness and strength.  When the fiberglass is shot onto the acrylic shell, thick in some places and thin in others, it can give the shell a place to crack instead of a consistent strength with the ability to flex.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I do see more cracks (about 2 to 1) with non-fiber-glass spas, but the difference is when the non-fiberglass cracks the spa leaks. This is a much more costly repair than fixing a cracked fiber-glass spa, as the fiber-glass one will only be an aesthetic issue fixed from the front side.

I gotta jump in on this as I learned long ago, that while these "numbers" may be true, they may also mean nothing.

Back when I was a lolely spa tech (fighting off dinosaurs to get from job to job) I frequently got calls from people asking what spa I repaired the most, and what the least. Same thing, they were spa shopping and wanted a service techs point of view.

Anyway, brand A I repaired all the time, brand B I rarely if ever did any repairs on. ..... Gee, clear winner, right? Took a few years to learn, but OH HOW WRONG I WAS.

The truth as it turned out........

Brand A had downsized their operations and while they appeared to not sell a lot of spas, in the past they had been a major leader in my area. They also had stopped doing service work on their spas once out of warranty. This meant there were a LOT of service customers "up for grabs"....... And I was pretty aggressive at getting new customers. I got to fix a LOT of these spas.

Brand B...... Brand B continued to grow and sell more and more spas every year. They were VERY service oriented and made a LOT of $ servicing their spas, even after the warranty. They went to great lengths to service their customers and make them happy (customers of course paying for this). They stayed in constant contact with their past customers, even with new owners if a home sold. Once they sold a spa, it was rare that they would lose the owner of that spa as a customer. Hence, this meant there were VERY FEW of this brand of spa service customers "up for grabs"

So, there was me, servicing brand A, and brand B with his own FIVE service techs servicing brand B. Yet from my perspective, I was fixing a heck of a lot more brand A than B.

and they all lived happily ever after........

[Reese]

Reese, I imagine that you are a dealer, but I don't know that. The reason that I assume that is because you don't seem to get where we are coming from.

No, I'm not a dealer.  I'm actually the opposite -- a consumer who finds most of the brand postioning on this site offensive.  I stated my opinions on that quite emphatically, so I won't rehash.  I jumped in this thread because I learned enough while shopping to know that most every statement like "fiberglass is best" has a counterpoint that is equally credible.  When you and Altazi appeared to buy the fiberglass argument without even appearing aware that there was another side, I thought I was helping by pointing out the fallacy of thinking he was in a position to select fiberglass as a "differentiator" this early in his shopping process.  By subsequent comments, it is clear to me that he will need to learn that on his own.

You and I don't appear that far apart on the issue of information overload while shopping for spas.  You just seem to want to try to process it all, while I recommend sticking to what we consumers have the expertise to evaluate, the things I mentioned in previous posts.  I'll leave it for you and Altazi to figure out which frame material, construction techniques, shell, insulation, components, warranty, and dealer network are truly "best".  If you do, please let us know.  It will save us all a lot of aggravation, and we can focus on lounge/no lounge and which color we like best.

p.s.  I imagine you are a homemaker with a technical background, looking for places to apply it.  Was I any closer than you?

[Bonibelle]

You're almost right Reese, actually if my husband would let me go back to work...I would  not have time to hang on here wondering if I missed something. That was the real reason I even asked the fiberglass question.

 I waited to buy my tub until I thought I knew enough to make a good decision. I am happy with that decision, but I don't remember being concerned about how the spa shell was manufactured..so I just wanted to know... inquiring minds want to know...That's all..
 [smiley=beer.gif]

[Tman122]

I do see more cracks (about 2 to 1) with non-fiber-glass spas, but the difference is when the non-fiberglass cracks the spa leaks. This is a much more costly repair than fixing a cracked fiber-glass spa, as the fiber-glass one will only be an aesthetic issue fixed from the front side.

I gotta jump in on this as I learned long ago, that while these "numbers" may be true, they may also mean nothing.

Back when I was a lolely spa tech (fighting off dinosaurs to get from job to job) I frequently got calls from people asking what spa I repaired the most, and what the least. Same thing, they were spa shopping and wanted a service techs point of view.

Anyway, brand A I repaired all the time, brand B I rarely if ever did any repairs on. ..... Gee, clear winner, right? Took a few years to learn, but OH HOW WRONG I WAS.

The truth as it turned out........

Brand A had downsized their operations and while they appeared to not sell a lot of spas, in the past they had been a major leader in my area. They also had stopped doing service work on their spas once out of warranty. This meant there were a LOT of service customers "up for grabs"....... And I was pretty aggressive at getting new customers. I got to fix a LOT of these spas.

Brand B...... Brand B continued to grow and sell more and more spas every year. They were VERY service oriented and made a LOT of $ servicing their spas, even after the warranty. They went to great lengths to service their customers and make them happy (customers of course paying for this). They stayed in constant contact with their past customers, even with new owners if a home sold. Once they sold a spa, it was rare that they would lose the owner of that spa as a customer. Hence, this meant there were VERY FEW of this brand of spa service customers "up for grabs"

So, there was me, servicing brand A, and brand B with his own FIVE service techs servicing brand B. Yet from my perspective, I was fixing a heck of a lot more brand A than B.

and they all lived happily ever after........

I'm gona side with Doc. If you fix 1 fiberglass and 2 ABS in one month and there are 4 times the ABS tubs in your town which has the most repairs ABS or fiberglass?

[Gary]

I do see more cracks (about 2 to 1) with non-fiber-glass spas, but the difference is when the non-fiberglass cracks the spa leaks. This is a much more costly repair than fixing a cracked fiber-glass spa, as the fiber-glass one will only be an aesthetic issue fixed from the front side.

I gotta jump in on this as I learned long ago, that while these "numbers" may be true, they may also mean nothing.

Back when I was a lolely spa tech (fighting off dinosaurs to get from job to job) I frequently got calls from people asking what spa I repaired the most, and what the least. Same thing, they were spa shopping and wanted a service techs point of view.

Anyway, brand A I repaired all the time, brand B I rarely if ever did any repairs on. ..... Gee, clear winner, right? Took a few years to learn, but OH HOW WRONG I WAS.

The truth as it turned out........

Brand A had downsized their operations and while they appeared to not sell a lot of spas, in the past they had been a major leader in my area. They also had stopped doing service work on their spas once out of warranty. This meant there were a LOT of service customers "up for grabs"....... And I was pretty aggressive at getting new customers. I got to fix a LOT of these spas.

Brand B...... Brand B continued to grow and sell more and more spas every year. They were VERY service oriented and made a LOT of $ servicing their spas, even after the warranty. They went to great lengths to service their customers and make them happy (customers of course paying for this). They stayed in constant contact with their past customers, even with new owners if a home sold. Once they sold a spa, it was rare that they would lose the owner of that spa as a customer. Hence, this meant there were VERY FEW of this brand of spa service customers "up for grabs"

So, there was me, servicing brand A, and brand B with his own FIVE service techs servicing brand B. Yet from my perspective, I was fixing a heck of a lot more brand A than B.

and they all lived happily ever after........

I'm gona side with Doc. If you fix 1 fiberglass and 2 ABS in one month and there are 4 times the ABS tubs in your town which has the most repairs ABS or fiberglass?

I do understand what you mean, but if you 100 fiber-glass spas and 100 ABS ones I will see more cracks in the ABS. I am not saying some companies are doing a much better job these days but an ABS backed shell weaker is than fiber-glass one.

[Vanguard]

I do see more cracks (about 2 to 1) with non-fiber-glass spas, but the difference is when the non-fiberglass cracks the spa leaks. This is a much more costly repair than fixing a cracked fiber-glass spa, as the fiber-glass one will only be an aesthetic issue fixed from the front side.

I gotta jump in on this as I learned long ago, that while these "numbers" may be true, they may also mean nothing.

Back when I was a lolely spa tech (fighting off dinosaurs to get from job to job) I frequently got calls from people asking what spa I repaired the most, and what the least. Same thing, they were spa shopping and wanted a service techs point of view.

Anyway, brand A I repaired all the time, brand B I rarely if ever did any repairs on. ..... Gee, clear winner, right? Took a few years to learn, but OH HOW WRONG I WAS.

The truth as it turned out........

Brand A had downsized their operations and while they appeared to not sell a lot of spas, in the past they had been a major leader in my area. They also had stopped doing service work on their spas once out of warranty. This meant there were a LOT of service customers "up for grabs"....... And I was pretty aggressive at getting new customers. I got to fix a LOT of these spas.

Brand B...... Brand B continued to grow and sell more and more spas every year. They were VERY service oriented and made a LOT of $ servicing their spas, even after the warranty. They went to great lengths to service their customers and make them happy (customers of course paying for this). They stayed in constant contact with their past customers, even with new owners if a home sold. Once they sold a spa, it was rare that they would lose the owner of that spa as a customer. Hence, this meant there were VERY FEW of this brand of spa service customers "up for grabs"

So, there was me, servicing brand A, and brand B with his own FIVE service techs servicing brand B. Yet from my perspective, I was fixing a heck of a lot more brand A than B.

and they all lived happily ever after........

I'm gona side with Doc. If you fix 1 fiberglass and 2 ABS in one month and there are 4 times the ABS tubs in your town which has the most repairs ABS or fiberglass?

I do understand what you mean, but if you 100 fiber-glass spas and 100 ABS ones I will see more cracks in the ABS. I am not saying some companies are doing a much better job these days but an ABS backed shell weaker is than fiber-glass one.

I think you are presenting a biased opinion.  Do you have actual facts from all the different manufacturers on how many cracks they have?  This would be the only way to make such a definitive statement.  Do you have scientific evidence to prove fiberglass is stronger than the other method?  What if the company applying the fiberglass does a poor job?  Is it still better?  

I'm not saying one is better than the other.  IMO, these are two approaches to the same end:  A good quality product.

[Bonibelle]

Hey Gary...Quit keeping track of those cracks...just fix 'em and don't be telling anybody about it!  Got it?

[Altazi]

[No, I'm not a dealer.  I'm actually the opposite -- a consumer who finds most of the brand postioning on this site offensive.  I stated my opinions on that quite emphatically, so I won't rehash.  I jumped in this thread because I learned enough while shopping to know that most every statement like "fiberglass is best" has a counterpoint that is equally credible.  When you and Altazi appeared to buy the fiberglass argument without even appearing aware that there was another side, I thought I was helping by pointing out the fallacy of thinking he was in a position to select fiberglass as a "differentiator" this early in his shopping process.  By subsequent comments, it is clear to me that he will need to learn that on his own.

You and I don't appear that far apart on the issue of information overload while shopping for spas.  You just seem to want to try to process it all, while I recommend sticking to what we consumers have the expertise to evaluate, the things I mentioned in previous posts.  I'll leave it for you and Altazi to figure out which frame material, construction techniques, shell, insulation, components, warranty, and dealer network are truly "best".  If you do, please let us know.  It will save us all a lot of aggravation, and we can focus on lounge/no lounge and which color we like best.

Reese, you would come off better to me if you would get off the high horse and share some REAL information about spas, not just telling me that "I will need to learn that on [my] own."  If you have learned so much while doing your own shopping, why not just share what you have learned?  That would help me and all others who are reading this thread.

I am here in good faith, trying to make a reasonable effort to learn as much as I can regarding spas.  You don't know my level of expertise, and have no idea what I can or cannot evaluate; to consider otherwise is presumptuous.  

In case you missed it, I will restate my position: I INVITE contrasting opinions.  I am not going to run off, half-cocked just because one person makes an absolute statement.  I am aware that there may be alternate ideas and opinons - I WANT TO HEAR THEM.  Please don't just hack at my approach to learning.  Share some of your wisdom.

[Gary]

I do see more cracks (about 2 to 1) with non-fiber-glass spas, but the difference is when the non-fiberglass cracks the spa leaks. This is a much more costly repair than fixing a cracked fiber-glass spa, as the fiber-glass one will only be an aesthetic issue fixed from the front side.

I gotta jump in on this as I learned long ago, that while these "numbers" may be true, they may also mean nothing.

Back when I was a lolely spa tech (fighting off dinosaurs to get from job to job) I frequently got calls from people asking what spa I repaired the most, and what the least. Same thing, they were spa shopping and wanted a service techs point of view.

Anyway, brand A I repaired all the time, brand B I rarely if ever did any repairs on. ..... Gee, clear winner, right? Took a few years to learn, but OH HOW WRONG I WAS.

The truth as it turned out........

Brand A had downsized their operations and while they appeared to not sell a lot of spas, in the past they had been a major leader in my area. They also had stopped doing service work on their spas once out of warranty. This meant there were a LOT of service customers "up for grabs"....... And I was pretty aggressive at getting new customers. I got to fix a LOT of these spas.

Brand B...... Brand B continued to grow and sell more and more spas every year. They were VERY service oriented and made a LOT of $ servicing their spas, even after the warranty. They went to great lengths to service their customers and make them happy (customers of course paying for this). They stayed in constant contact with their past customers, even with new owners if a home sold. Once they sold a spa, it was rare that they would lose the owner of that spa as a customer. Hence, this meant there were VERY FEW of this brand of spa service customers "up for grabs"

So, there was me, servicing brand A, and brand B with his own FIVE service techs servicing brand B. Yet from my perspective, I was fixing a heck of a lot more brand A than B.

and they all lived happily ever after........

I'm gona side with Doc. If you fix 1 fiberglass and 2 ABS in one month and there are 4 times the ABS tubs in your town which has the most repairs ABS or fiberglass?

I do understand what you mean, but if you 100 fiber-glass spas and 100 ABS ones I will see more cracks in the ABS. I am not saying some companies are doing a much better job these days but an ABS backed shell weaker is than fiber-glass one.

I think you are presenting a biased opinion.  Do you have actual facts from all the different manufacturers on how many cracks they have?  This would be the only way to make such a definitive statement.  Do you have scientific evidence to prove fiberglass is stronger than the other method?  What if the company applying the fiberglass does a poor job?  Is it still better?  

I'm not saying one is better than the other.  IMO, these are two approaches to the same end:  A good quality product.

I think we got off track and I am as much to blame as anyone. Here is how I see it:

Probably both types cracks as much as the other who really knows, but when an ABS one cracks the spa leaks so the customer will need it fixed. A fiberglass one can crack and the customer may never know (especially if it is out of warranty). Do I think one is better than the other, absolutely (if done correct).

No matter which one there are manufacturers that will do it wrong.

[hottub.pool_boy]

I revise my earlier post. I sell a $7.00 tube of leak-fixer, in leiu of the $500 permanent fix. You may have to apply some every couple months. Works slick!
 
Let's face it, it you have a crack in your shell, you know it! The cracks that hold water, harbor unfiltered, unsanitized water--like them air blower channels. Plus those types of cracks pinch you a$$ when you move around in a seat.

It's still the guy you buy the spa from who makes the difference. I'ts best to choose a dealer wisely, than choose shell construction.

[Altazi]

It's still the guy you buy the spa from who makes the difference. I'ts best to choose a dealer wisely, than choose shell construction.

Hello HPB,

The need for a good, solid dealer is one point upon which I believe we can all agree.

Regards,

Altazi