Fiberglass backed shells

[hottubdan]

Where is the data?  Is the issue fieberglass vs. no fiberglass?  Maybe it can be quality manufacturing process.

To lump all fiberglass spas in a group vs. all non-fiberglass spas seems a little silly to me.

[Altazi]

Most spas are fiberglass backed but there are many differences in thicknesses.  Cheaper manufacturers will put 1 layer of fiber glass and call it good.  The advantage of fiberglass over an ABS; if you were to ever have a crack in the top layer of acrylic, the spa would not leak.  Marquis is a fiberglass backed spa with several layers of fiberglass that produced a shell that is about 1/2" thick.  

Thank you, MarKee.  I would call that a positive differentiator.  Does anyone reading this post think otherwise?  If so, please explain your reasoning.  Thanks!

Regards,

Altazi

[Bonibelle]

Pshew! since fiberglass appears to be a good thing, I am glad to know my tub has it...Thanks Markee. Maybe we should let this one go and just say it is good information. I am willing to bet most sales people wouldn't even bring this up...It isn't as visible as Full foam...no by-Pass ....or do we now have another parameter in that category?

[Altazi]

Hi Bonibelle,

First, what is that little cartoon you use as your avatar?

Next, what I would like to know is the frequency of repairs by manufacturer, kind of like Consumer Reports does for products they evaluate.  I wish the repair techs would post what tubs they work on, and why.  Are most problems caused by the users?  Is it normal wear-and-tear, or something else?

I'd REALLY like to see something like the CR Automobile issue, where one could see failure ratings for each spa manufacturer, product by product, year by year, with details on the various components: shell, surface, heater, pumps, blower, electronics, etc.

Of course, this kind of information isn't available to us consumers.  I am pretty sure each manufacturer has this information, but won't share it.  So, what is a careful consumer to do?  Research on the Internet, read posts on the spa forum, talk to salespeople, and try to figure out a straight story out of all of that.

Regards,

Altazi

PS - I never claimed to be an average consumer, if there even is such a creature.  I am an analytical, picky, thorough S.O.B. who NEVER makes a decision purely based on emotions.  I suppose that makes me a salesperson's nightmare.

[hottub.pool_boy]

I'm a hot tub business owner, selling Watkins- HotSpring, Tiger River, Solana, and Hot Spot Spas.

Every HotSpring(with exception to the Classic series-thermal plastic), Tiger River and Solana spa are not fiberglassed and ARE Acrylic. I've NEVER seen one with a crack in the water. I've seen a handful with A crack at the start of the shell where it meets the cabinet. Have I seen some thermal plastic Hot Spring spas with cracks- yes.  A fraction of a percentage of the ones we've sold.

Our Hot Spot spa line is fiberglass backed.

Some thing to remember is - dissimilar materials shrink and expand at different rates through hot and cold temperatures. Acrylic sheets and fiberglass are very DISSIMILAR materials.

The last 10-15 acrylic/ fibergalss spas we took in on trade-in/ removal ALL had cracks in the shells. Some minor, some extensive. We get calls to cosmetic repair cracks in fiberglass backed spas. We don't do it, and I've yet to find anyone in our area who does it. There's quite a market for it out there, if someone's looking to get good with an airbrush.

We do have permanent repairs for the thermal plastic. After a five year warranty, where it wouldn't cost you a dime to fix(read YOUR warranty), yes, it isn't cheap for a techician to make a house call to permanently fix a crack. $500-$700. We'll take a trade-in on that spa, or better yet, make the permanent repair and if within three months you want to trade it in, we give you the trade-in value, PLUS your invoice for the repair.

I personally don't think fibergalss backed spas are better, but I'm an owner,salesman, technician, boss, Dad, friend,etc, etc.

[Bonibelle]

Altazi...Just keep on doing what you are doing. You are right, Consumer Reports doesn't evaluate spas, so you will have to do all the research yourself. For someone who choses high dollar items carefully, buying a spa can be really tough! This forum however is full of great people who share information and experiences that can help you get a handle on all the confusion. If you arm yourself well with information, you can ask the right questions and sort through any sales BS when you are shopping. You may decide that a certain brand fits all the criteria that you think important, but you may not like the selection of tubs made by that manufacturer. I think the first consideration is that the spa fits your needs..size, jets, configuration, etc. Otherwise what is the point?  Virtually everyone on here will tell you  how important it is to wet test. Then look at the structural and mechanical things. As far as ratings on various components, I think the manufacturers use pumps and electronics made by various suppliers and that can change year to year.

To me, a good solid warranty is an indicator of a quality product especially  since I didn't have a "consumer report" to do reliability research. It's funny, all the research that I did made me even more curious about this industry...and that is why I still hang out here..it is a constant learning experience.(for more than just Hot Tub stuff) Besides, this forum is full of cool folks  and a great moderator to keep us in line!

My avitar is just a cartoon from PrintShop software...
Good luck, you'll be soaking before you know it.

[Vanguard]

Considering one of the top brands in this industry uses the ABS and you don't hear of cracking issues, I'd have to say that saying fiberglass is better than Acrylic/ABS is simply an opinion.

I have a Hot Spring and have no cracks.  In my years in service I saw many more fiberglass shells with blisters and cracks.  I do know many of the top brands that fiberglass do it in a manner where they have overcome that issue so you really don't see much of that anymore.  

I could see this turn into a FF/TP conversation.  Those who sell fiberglass will think that is superior.  Those who don't use fiberglass will think theirs is better.  

Basically, most manufacturers have figured out how to make a good shell and one that one crack.  As long as you go with a good brand with a good reputation and a good warranty, you will be fine.

[MarKee]

There are also various types of fiberglass mixtures that manufacturers use.  How the shell is backed shouldn't be the biggest concern.  A quality manufacturer like Marquis or Hotspring will give you a solid warranty, 7 years not only on the structure but ALSO on the surface of the shell (cosmetics).  There are a lot of misleading warranties out there that give a 20 year or lifetime warranty on the shell, but when you read the fine print it's only on the structure of the shell and the surface is warranteed for 3 or 5 years.  I can't speak for other brands, but I have never seen a Marquis shell lose water or structurally fail, it doesn't happen.  If something were to happen to the shell it would be an issue with the surface layer of acrylic.

[Vanguard]

There are also various types of fiberglass mixtures that manufacturers use.  How the shell is backed shouldn't be the biggest concern.  A quality manufacturer like Marquis or Hotspring will give you a solid warranty, 7 years not only on the structure but ALSO on the surface of the shell (cosmetics).  There are a lot of misleading warranties out there that give a 20 year or lifetime warranty on the shell, but when you read the fine print it's only on the structure of the shell and the surface is warranteed for 3 or 5 years.  I can't speak for other brands, but I have never seen a Marquis shell lose water or structurally fail, it doesn't happen.  If something were to happen to the shell it would be an issue with the surface layer of acrylic.

Would you say that some "cheaper" spas go cheaper on their fiberglass and thus are not as good as say a Marquis or Sundance or Caldera?  They could still say they are fiberglassed, but not be done as well as others?  

[MarKee]

Ya I don't know the exact science of fiberglassing, but I know there are different resin mixtures and different ways of making the fiberglass adhere to the acrylic.  I do know that "bubbling" occurs when the acrylic seperates from the fiber glass backing.  I have never seen "bubbling" on a Marquis but I've heard it happens on other brands, probably lower end manufacturers that don't have the experience or science to build the shell properly.

[East_TX_Spa]

I'm more than happy to climb up on the side of any empty spa in my showroom (with the exception of HotSpots, which are fiberglass) and jump down into the bottom with my 240 lb frame.  I'd be more than happy to do the same to any other brand of spa (as long as I won't be held responsible for damages).

Terminator

[Reese]

It sounds like spas with fiberglass shells are superior to those with other types of construction.

Altazi, I hope that you followed this thread after you made your conclusion.  If you and Bonnibelle thought I was testy, it was because you two were making statements like this, when you only knew 1/2 (actually less) of the story.  Sometimes an "extremely quick grasp of mechanical and electrical concepts" will lead a person to to jump to conclusions.  It is important to "know enough to know what you don't know".

You are certainly free to search out whatever information you feel is important in making your decision, but I would hate for another casual reader to come across comments like that one and have it influence their choice.  That is why I challenged it, and tried to offer you some guidance.  My work here is done.

[Bonibelle]

Hey Term, You can jump up and down in  my spa anytime Now wouldn't that be a pic of the day!
But I don't think that is a realistic test for anything...a real test is a practical one that presents the product the way it was supposed to be used. My husband and I argue over this all the time...you can do all the testing you want but if it isn't relevant to how something is actually done, or used..it doesn't mean much.  In other words, you would have to "validate" your test method and prove that it replicates actual stress during use and extropolate those results over a time period (the expected life of the spa).    

[Bonibelle]

Reese, I imagine that you are a dealer, but I don't know that. The reason that I assume that is because you don't seem to get where we are coming from. As dealers, you have all the information before you. You are taught how to defend your product from competition. We don't have that information in one spot, so we seek it.  How important it is, relative to our purchases, is kind of an evolution...As we learn more, maybe we will realize that fiberglass backing on a shell isn't  as important as the filtration system...or the insulation. So if we grab on to a statement, it is because we don't have all of the information at our fingertips and we have to figure out where it fits in the picutre. I think I may have reacted like I did because you jumped on Gary, I'm sorry :-/
Now does anybody have any thoughts about projection TVs and the difference between SXRD and DLP?

[Altazi]

Hello Reese,

I am the first to admit that I don't know everything about spas - why else would I be here talking to all of you?  I would prefer that you give me the "other 1/2 of the story" instead of merely criticizing my approach.  Perhaps your work here isn't done. . .

I see nothing wrong with making a statement like "It sounds like spas with fiberglass shells are superior to those with other types of construction."  It is an appropriate response to the previous posts; it was my intention to open up a discussion wherein people can support or refute the point.  Now, if I had made an absolute statement like "Spas with fiberglass shells are superior to those with other types of construction," that would be a problem.  I choose my words very carefully.

As for other "casual readers" - they had better be careful, eh?  There is a lot of BS to wade through.

Regards,

Altazi