what do I ask the thermospa rep?

[still sore]

Based on my research so far I know thermospas are considered to be junk. However, we had scheduled an appt. before we really started doing research and I think I have a good handle at what features I'm looking at. I'm also not susceptible to high pressure sales, especially in my home. So even though we've already narrowed our choices to about three tubs (Saratoga empire, Marquis reward, D1 California - please see and give your .02 on the buying factory rejects / blemishes topic for more on that) I figured it can't hurt to keep a open mind and listen to the thermospa rep. So, what questions should I ask, besides why they have such a bad rep on the net? Also, is anyone happy with their thermospa?

[Guzz]

Ask to see the warranty, in writing, and when you get it, send me a copy, I've been trying to find one for years, I believe it's like searching for the Holy Grail.

[Altazi]

Hello Still Sore,

I am also looking for a spa.  I would go to www.ripoffreport.com and read the complaints on Thermospa.  There are a couple of complaints there, one from 2004 and one from 2006.  There are no rebuttals from Thermospa to the complaints.

Also, check out the dealer & manufacturer on the Better Business Bureau website, www.bbb.com.  I have done all of this for any of the dealers & manufacturers I am considering.

Regards,

Altazi

[East_TX_Spa]

ThermoSpas
155 East Street
Wallingford, CT  06492
Telephone: (800) 876-0158
www.thermospas.com

Original Business Start Date: January 1982
New Owner Date: May 2004
Principal: Mr. Andy Tournas, President
Customer Contact: Ms. Lori Barnes, Customer Relations Manager - (800) 876-0158
Entity: Sole Proprietor
Employees: 500
TOB Classification: Spas & Hot Tubs- Manufacturers, Spas & Hot Tubs - Dealers
BBB Membership: This company is not a member.


Nature Of Business

This company manufactures and sells hot tubs, accessories and chemicals direct to the consumer along with providing direct delivery and service.
 

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record    
 BBB Definition:

unsatisfactory  record - A company has an "unsatisfactory business performance record" with the Bureau is based on the experiences reflected in BBB files. This file condition results when the company has failed to resolve or respond to complaints, repeatedly failed to respond or resolve issues in a timely manner, failed to resolve the underlying issues for a pattern    
 BBB Definition:

pattern - More than 2 complaints involving the same allegations usually within 12 months that are significant in relation to the company's size and volume of business.  
  
 
 of complaints, failed to honor their commitment to mediate or arbitrate disputes or honor mediated agreements or arbitrated decisions, failed to substantiate, modify or discontinue false advertising claims that are challenged by the BBB, or failed to discontinue unauthorized use of the BBB name and logo, a Federally protected trademark.  
  
 
 with the Bureau due to one or more unresolved    
 BBB Definition:

unresolved - The company failed to resolve the complaint issues.  
  
 
 complaint(s).

When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.

The Bureau processed a total of 159 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 159 complaints closed in 36 months, 40 were closed in the last year.

What would I ask the rep?

I'd ask him to get off my property.

Terminator

 

[mjb]

Besides what Term said.
I would ask them to not call
me about the blue one in the
warehouse that they always
seem to have available for
a huge discount.

[In Canada eh]

What would I ask the rep?

I'd ask him to get off my property.

Terminator
 

Well said!

When we started to look for our tub,  we heard absolute nightmare stories about Thermospa

[hottub.pool_boy]

Not review the entire evolution of hot tub history. Not to stay at my house all night till I'm worn down and give you a deposit. Can you wet test the three or four spas you like?

 They're manufacturer about thirty miles from us. They provide hot water and jet pressure at very high prices.

[Vinny]

I would ask when the factory is holding a "blemish sale" at a local place. I know 2 people who bought from there (Ft Washington, PA) and are extremely happy with them. They come with a very low warranty and can be upgraded to x # of years. Both have had some problems but 1 had the extended warranty and 1 didn't and fixed the problem himself - both are happy with their purchases.

I will say that both paid a lot less than was typically quoted for a Thermospa (I thin 3000 and 5000 but I'm not sure).

Since you can resist high pressure sales, I'd say to have some fun with the sales person if he/she gets carried away. Make low offers or something like that, my favorite when my kids try to negotiate is to lower my original offer - they have stopped trying.

I have only have 2 people give me high pressure sales and I pretty much blasted both ... One happened to be a HS salesperson and I had a lot of fun with him since I was well versed in tubs, I actually wanted to steal his customers in the store away from him and bring them to my dealer but I also have to be able to live myself as a human being!

Good luck and have some fun!!!

[still sore]

Yea, let me make myself clear here - I have no qualms yelling / arguing with salesman on car lots, boat dealers, etc. ( a few have almost got physical) so I'm not about to hesitate to tell someone to leave my property, BUT, other than my own research what aren't they going to be able to answer that will shut them down. The BBB reports are great, thanks.

[Guzz]

After you have asked to see the warranty, which they will not have, because it does'nt exist, ( they may give you a piece of paper claiming to be a warranty) then ask about who is going to service the spa, get their phone # and call them, tell them your heater has failed and you need service. See what happens.

[Reese]

I have no personal experience with Thermospas, but after reading about their tactics, I'd like to know why they expect people to spend that much money without allowing them to see, touch and try out the product first.  I'd be curious to know what makes them worth more than the major brands (at least on their initial quote).  As Guzz said, I would definitely require a copy of the warranty that I could "have my brother the attorney take a look at", and get the number of the tech who would be working on the tub, as well as have a couple of customer referrals in the area who have had their tub for awhile.  I'd make it clear that I would never sign papers on a major purchase without the chance to think it over and comparison shop, no matter what special deal is available today only (including the one that just became available at a special price that the salesperson finds out about after phoning his manager.)  If the price keeps coming down, I'd ask him/her to just fast-forward to their best offer, and then to explain why they were trying to screw me with their first quote.  Finally, I'd also ask for the salesperson's home phone number, since I'm sure he works a lot of nights and probably can't answer his cell phone during presentations, so it would be easier to get back to him there.

Please let us know what happens.

[East_TX_Spa]

Here is a post I copied from Dr. Spa's forum a few months ago that sheds a great deal of light on how they operate.  I apologize for the poor paragraph structure and spelling, but I don't have time to edit it.

you must be one of the hired guns they use to respond to bad posts on the internet. let me tell you that thermospas is the best sales job anyone can get. salesman make $150,000 plus per year. they are given a price sheet where the par price(the rock bottom price thermospas can sell a spa for with the salesman making only a flat $100 commission)is listed in between the model numbers on the price sheet, it's hidden in between the front and last number on the fake serial number. the salesman can sell a spa for any number they want above par and than they split that amount 50/50 with the company! they usually start with showing the highly inflated "retail" (they don't have any dealers that sell thier spas anywhere close to the high prices they charge with thier in home program)price sheet and than offer you a first night discount called the "factory direct" price.they usually give thier pitch than at the end they do the classic "drop" where they call in and ask the sales manager for a better price if the customer buys that night! its the old tin man routine and it makes alot of money. the head of the outfit is andy tournas and he does extensive training with the salesman and teaches them how to alway make the sale that night, if they dont sell that night than a manager will call the customer a few days later and offer a "special" deal and sell it fot par, its called the rehash program. i found all this out the hard way, i paid way too much for my spa. my friend got the exact same spa for thousands less than me. dont fall for thier trade in scam either, all they do is raise the price of thier spa and reduce it by the supposed amount they offer you for your trade. its a laugh, as i said they have salesman making thousands in a single night, not bad if they can sleep with the guilty conscience. good luck but i would never buy from them again

Terminator

[wmccall]

I would like to hear their reaction to a statement like,  "Thats an interesting offer, I want to compare it with spa X. His reaction to that to me would be telling.

[Tatooed_Lady]

Hmm....lemme see.....
"Excuse me, but are you almost done shoveling? I seem to have misplaced my hip waders."
"I'm impressed, I didn't think I had the 'MORON' sign on my forehead lit up tonight."
"I was interested in your product until you started talking..."
"I'll need to sleep on it. My husband/wife/lesbian lover would simply KILL me if I bought this tonight!"
"Oh, boy...will you look at the time? I need to clean my guns before bedtime, it calms the voices."
"Do you have a Thermospa at home? Really? What year/style? Where do you live so I can check it out more closely?"
"I'll bring the hubby and kidlets over this weekend. We'll grill out at your place, check out the tub, and give you an answer once we see how well it suits our lifestyle. "
"We're nudists, we won't get any jets that poke us in the ya-yas will we? Can we come wet test yours to be sure? We'll be by around 8 tomorrow morning."
Well, I'll be danged...who'da thunk they'da come up with a TUB that gots HOT water in it? Shucks, the dogs'll LOVE chasin' the fish around in that dad-burn thing!" (a-yuck!)

NEXT!

[still sore]

Well, the presentation was closer to 120 munutes than ninety. Not a big deal, guy was decent and provided some good site info etc., but if we didn't take the initiative to politely end it you got the idea it could on forever. Dropped the price on the lower level healing spa from $14k+ healing spa to $10k. When I started adding in the ozone system, cover lifter, steps, he made a good deal on their "top of the line" ozone system (came down to @$400 from about $800 got a feeling you could get their "regular" ozone system for next to nothing) and took a few bucks off the steps and cover lifter. It was still @$11k for an 85"x85" spa with two single speed water pumps, a circ pump, and a bubbler pump, (what they call a four pump system) or about $2k or more than the tubs we are looking at with more features (like 2 speed pumps). No phones calls and I was trying to figure out the serial# to price thing - if I was right the bottom line would have been $7800 but we didn't come close to that. At the end he asked if there was any reason other than price keeping from buying tonight (he knew we'd been shopping/researching). I listed the terrible reputation on the internet, BBB complaints, and the fact you couldn't touch/see the tubs. He explained there was some hot tub sales guy across town from their plant that spent a winter making over 1000 negative posts about the company and they now have a lawsuit against the guy. He said they have a contract with BBB that says they have to abide by what ever determination BBB makes and the ones who haven't been solved are simply customers who have no accepted the BBB's decision yet. He also offerred a factory tour to touch / see the tubs. As for the warranty he had a page in the sales presentation and said it was 1 yr parts and labor, 10 year part replacement, and 10 year "no fault" electonics warranty with with $100 deductible for parts 3-6 yrs old and $200 for tubs 7-10 urs old. He said the surface warranty was 20 yrs. He had a sample of the shell which was impressive compared to what we've seen. He said the brain and controls were made by Balboa and was Balboa's #7 best control out of the 7 different quality controls they make (I don't know if this is B.S. but it doesn't make sense one company would make seven different controls of varying qualities. He said three different manufacturers make their pumps but wouldn't specify the companies because you couldn't order a specific one.  

Its not like it was a negative expience - I just don't see the "factory direct" savings. Your buying a tub sight unseen and not wet tested with less features than comparitive tubs for more money. The lounges look nowhere near as deep or comfortable because each side doubles as a single seat. Meanwhile, the D1 dealer down the road is wiring and filling a californian just for us to try.

At this point we're down to the D1, the Marquis Reward, and the Saratoga Empire. The wife likes the Empire and I like the reward. We're hoping the californian will be the one we'll both agree on. If not, I'm not sure which we'll chose but I don't think it'll be a thermospa. For all I know thermospa may be the best quality tubs out there but I'm not going to spend a day going to the factory and spend another $2k that what the other commonly accepted top brands are asking.