Question for the Water Experts ...

[Vinny]

What constitutes "hard water"?  I know it's the calcium quantity in the water but at what PPM does it become considered hard? Are there other factors?

I believe I have soft water coming out of the tap and I have to add calcium to my tub to get it to the proper range. Taylor recommends 150 to 400 PPM of calcium in the water and is the higher reading hard? And I have read people here with 500 or more PPM and they are considered hard.

I'm asking for my own knowledge (I know I don't have a problem) but it may be helpful to people who use chems in their tub that don't really need it because their not at the hardness range to use them.

Thanks!

[windsurfdog]

What constitutes "hard water"?

I would say it is water that doesn't need viagra...

[Vinny]

What constitutes "hard water"?

I would say it is water that doesn't need viagra...

The problem is the older the water gets the more help it needs to function properly ... I'm sure it wishes it was 20 day old water vs 3 month old water!

[ORANGEPEEL]

I think we have soft water also, but have not checked it.
What problems will soft water cause?
What is used to harden it (other than Viagra)?
I'm a believer in the less chemicals the better off??
Orangepeel

[Amanda_Panda]

The test kit that I use notes that the calcium hardness is ok at 250, and too high if it is above that. I have noticed that different tests can have a slightly different version of what is high or not but I recommend 250 for calcium hardness.

oh, and 20 year old water is great as long as it's been taken care of.

[spa_dr.]

Calcium Hardness - The amount of dissolved calcium in the water. Low residuals can cause etching and corrosion in pools, while high residuals can cause scale buildup and cloudy water.

Calcium Hardness is important to balance in a spa if Spa Sentry is not being used. Low hardness can corrode the heater and damage the spa surface, as well as contribute to excessive foaming. High hardness can cause scale buildup and cloudy water. The higher water temperature of a spa makes it more difficult for calcium to stay in solution, so it is recommended that Stain and Scale Control be used weekly to prevent any scale buildup.

[Vinny]

Calcium Hardness - The amount of dissolved calcium in the water. Low residuals can cause etching and corrosion in pools, while high residuals can cause scale buildup and cloudy water.

Calcium Hardness is important to balance in a spa if Spa Sentry is not being used. Low hardness can corrode the heater and damage the spa surface, as well as contribute to excessive foaming. High hardness can cause scale buildup and cloudy water. The higher water temperature of a spa makes it more difficult for calcium to stay in solution, so it is recommended that Stain and Scale Control be used weekly to prevent any scale buildup.

OK, now that we had a generalization, I'm looking for numbers and such. And what the heck is a Spa Sentry?

I know what low and high calcium hardness can do but I believe newbies are sometimes misled. To say you need this or that in a statement is BOGUS IMO. I'm not the most knowledgeable person in this area but I would hardly think that a person with a calcium reading of 250 PPM is at risk of calcium precipitating (spelling ?) out from the water if all the other water parameters are correct.

And as orangepeel said, he said he thinks he has soft water ... NUMBERS, WE NEED NUMBERS!!!  

OH, BTW orangepeel, you use calcium increaser to raise the hardness to the proper level.

[IDW]

Spa Sentry from Bioguard. Best spa product ever made. A phospherous buffer that controls Ph better than TA

[Vinny]

Spa Sentry from Bioguard. Best spa product ever made. A phospherous buffer that controls Ph better than TA

So if it controls PH then what does that have to do with hardness other than when water is too hard (AND AT WHAT NUMBER WOULD THAT BE??) that a high PH (or is that low) can precipitate calcium out.

AND what makes it "THE BEST"! Or is just your personal opinion And how much does it cost? I can get 2 lbs of baking soda for $0.79, so it better be pretty darn good!

[IDW]

Spa sentrey precipitates the calcium out of the water to 0 ppm upon application. Then the buffers automatically adjust PH. The ph is always 7.5 when Spa sentry is present. It cost about $10 per month and I am sure backing soda is way cheaper if that matters, but BS does not keep ph in range it just helps. It is a good product. I am sure other chemical companies have something similar.

[spa_dr.]

Calcium Hardness - The amount of dissolved calcium in the water. Low residuals can cause etching and corrosion in pools, while high residuals can cause scale buildup and cloudy water.

Calcium Hardness is important to balance in a spa if Spa Sentry is not being used. Low hardness can corrode the heater and damage the spa surface, as well as contribute to excessive foaming. High hardness can cause scale buildup and cloudy water. The higher water temperature of a spa makes it more difficult for calcium to stay in solution, so it is recommended that Stain and Scale Control be used weekly to prevent any scale buildup.

OK, now that we had a generalization, I'm looking for numbers and such. And what the heck is a Spa Sentry?

I know what low and high calcium hardness can do but I believe newbies are sometimes misled. To say you need this or that in a statement is BOGUS IMO. I'm not the most knowledgeable person in this area but I would hardly think that a person with a calcium reading of 250 PPM is at risk of calcium precipitating (spelling ?) out from the water if all the other water parameters are correct.

And as orangepeel said, he said he thinks he has soft water ... NUMBERS, WE NEED NUMBERS!!!  

OH, BTW orangepeel, you use calcium increaser to raise the hardness to the proper level.

150 to 300 ppm is the rcomendation by ALEX,,, biogaurd, water analysis system

[Reese]

Spa sentrey precipitates the calcium out of the water to 0 ppm upon application.

 Most everything I have ever read on the topic recommends some calcium in solution to form a protective coating on surfaces prone to corrosion, like heaters.  Also, if you precipitate it all out, where does it end up?  I thought scale was calcium precipitated out of solution?

[Reese]

What constitutes "hard water"?  I know it's the calcium quantity in the water but at what PPM does it become considered hard? Are there other factors?

It depends on whether you are a water softener manufacturer or not.  Sears, Culligan and Kinetico would have you beleive that any calcium or minerals are bad, and you should have their product to get them out.  Really it depends on what you are going to do with the water.  I like some minerals in my drinking water for flavor, and hot tubs like a moderate amount of  calcium in solution to protect sensitive components.  As you know the pH and temp of the water have an effect on how much calcium can stay in solution rather than precipitating out as scale.  In general, for hot tub purposes, it seems that water below 100 ppm is considered soft, 200 just right, and above 400 hard.  With hard water, or high pH/TA levels, a stain scale product is recommended.

[IDW]

The filter catches it

[Reese]

The filter catches it

What protects the heater and other components without a thin layer of calcium?