OK Techies! Lets Talk Ozone!!!

[Vinny]

After my ozone experiment and the N2 thread and since it's still in my mind I decided to research on-line ozonators for when my warranty expires. I am basing all my therory on todays available ozonators and I am curious if a higher output ozonator will have a different effect on my water. (read: another experiment)

It seems like the 2 most powerful SPA ozonators out there are the Jed 103 and the Prozone PZ 6. Jed produces 0.1 grams/hr and prozone produces 4 grams a day (which is about 0.16 grams an hour based on 24 hours).

Now the thoughts ...

My tub's circ pump runs at an advertized 11 GPM but I will e-mail Artesian to verify. The only aftermarker mixing degassing chamber that I have found is the Del and that needs to have it's charcoal canister replaced every year and I would have to  "T" it off since my circ pump runs at a rate too high for it to be plumbed in directly.

I have read that Chas has used a 14 ' tube as a mixing chamber on a CD ozonator and I believe that a HS has a rate of 5 GPM ... does that mean that I can use a 28' (or 30') tube and it'll be OK. Will the bubbles be too big by the time it travels to the tub - I know smaller bubbles are needed to be as effective as possible? Will the tube be too long to even pull enough water to filter - I will assume it doesn't matter.

OK - what do you think!

Thanks!!

[Mendocino101]

You know Vinny,

I would really recommend that you contact that manufacture directly...I think you will be more assured of accurate information ask for R&D...I mentioned in the thread about ozone that was going on a few days about talking to someone about CD vs UV and it was the manufactures direct R&D and I found the information to be much more in depth and really it really appeared to be unbiased just simply based on monitored testing...

[In Canada eh]

Vinny


Are you sure you want to open up this can of worms again?

[Vinny]

Mendo,

I must have missed that when you posted it and that is a great idea! I will do that when the time comes as I don't plan on adding any thing to my spa until the warranty is over (2 more years).

I was just thinking on how is it that my tub sees no difference in water conditions with or without ozone. I would imagine that my ozonator runs similarly the way a Marquis ozonator does since I have it running only 8 hours a day. Maybe it's because I use enough chlorine that it doesn't matter and my tub doesn't need ozone to do anything but reading that some people can get a week without treating their water has my interest peaked.

Since I'm a techie I always want to improve things ... I was talking to a coworker about making a pool solar heater and we were coming up with all sorts of "great" ideas to run it.

[JeffB]

Vinny, do check with Artesian re the gpm of the circ pump. I think 11 gpm is the old circ pump. The new 48 frame pump I think is much higher. In Artesian's old brochure, it talks about a .6 amp pump at 11 gpm moving the water through the filter up to 35 times per day. In the new brochure, Artesian talks about a .7 amp pump moving the water through the filter more than 100 times a day. But it omits any reference to gpm. Please post what you find out.  Thanks,  Jeff

[Vinny]

Vinny


Are you sure you want to open up this can of worms again?

I'm not looking for that can of worms but obviously ozone works but in my spa it doesn't - why?

I'm really not looking for sales dribble which that is what most of these debates become. I agree with Mendo that hopefully an ozonator company could give me specifics, I didn't think of it.

You have drinking water knowlwdge and from what I have been able to find the units that are used are vastly different than a spa's ozonator.

You inject O2, use about 6 KV, have pressurized contact chambers, reverse flow O3 mixing, monitor the amount of O3 in the water and use a degassing unit to kill any extra O3 - a spa puts out ozone,uses 30 watts, some have a mixing chamber, they all use air and dump it into a tub of hot water.

I really don't "need" an ozonator but I would like one that works if it's available. As I said to Mendo, I would like to be able to get a week of non treatment of water for those times I go away and my tub won't be attended to. I will put my ozonator on 24/7 the week that I go away but obviously I don't think too much of ozone at this point to put much faith in it.

It seems that a Del CD ozonator puts out very little ozone and I have a Del UV ozonator so it probably puts out VERY VERY little ozone ...

[In Canada eh]

Vinny

I think the key to having ozone work in a tub is to slow the gpm through the contact chamber ,at 11gpm, I think your circ pump would be to fast.  When we went through this the last time Chas posted a bit about Dell's contact chamber available for retrofits.  If you were to "tee off" your circ pump with a downstream valve and slow the flow down to about 5gpm.  I think you may have a good result with a CD unit in the 1mg per hour range.

Just my opinion

[Mendocino101]

Vinny here is my post from the therad about ozone systems its now on page 2 here in the forum and it applies to what you are asking about and what I happened tp run into just a week ago....

"Well....I have a different example to post.....this week we had a customer that could not get their water to maintain its normally sparkling personality ....I tried to help them trouble shoot over the phone and finally they asked about the ozone (smart of them) I told them how to check it and it was in fact not working ( only our 3rd unit in 2 years) ....anyway we put in a new one and the water came right back.....but this post also made me dig a little deeper into the debate about ozone and UV vs CD ......the R&D person I spoke with at great length really had a view very different than most posting here and that was in their in-depth studies that the UV type actually created more ozone and had less noise than the average CD unit.....but the UV did have its own flaws which were mainly the bulb coating itself with an oil like substance that the ballast produced ...so they went solid state unit and it has proven itself to be highly efficient and reliable ......He did say a unit that I would assume is more like the high output Arctic unit does put out more ozone but they felt it becomes cost prohibtive...... "
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[Vinny]

I shot off an e-mail to Artesian after JeffB said that the new brochure has the water being turned over 100 times a day that's 28 GPM by my calculations -WOW!!!

Del recommends that the GAC (Granulated Activated Cabon) cartridge be replaced once a year - I would hate to go into my equipment cabinet that often ... maybe just a tube venting to the outside would work. The other thing and maybe it is available though Del is they recommend a pressure regulator on that "T", now that's more than simply cutting a tube off the mazzi injector and gluing a whole new length of pipe to it along with another connector to the pump side.

But if the pump is running at this high a rate - there can't be any system that will keep the ozone in contact with the water unless a contact chamber is used.

The funny thing is I never smell ozone in my tub no matter when I open the cover. I do have one of Doc's foam blankets for the puposes of keeping the heat in the water (hopefully) and saving my cover from off gasing.

[Vinny]

Hey Mendo,

Thanks for that re post ... I didn't read that thread.

I have a feeling that Del although very well known may not be the best ... it probably has the best maketing though ... sound familiar?  

What manufacturer of ozone does Marquis supply and does it's ozone go into a seperate contact chamber?

Maybe my Del init produces so little ozone that it doesn't matter whether it's on or off. I do know that there is brown residue around the mazzi injector so there definately is ozone being produced.

I am very concerned about the damage to my headrests and cover but I guess that if it's not running 24 hours a day - the risk is minimal ... My headrewsts look great after 1 year so far but maybe that's from the lack of ozone ... the catch 22!

[Mendocino101]

Vinny

It seems that a Del CD ozonator puts out very little ozone and I have a Del UV ozonator so it probably puts out VERY VERY little ozone ...

Vinny,
it is very interesting that most assume that the CD units put out more ozone but thats not what I was told by the manufacture nor another poster who spoke to Del ...it appears that UV types were getting a bad rap but it appears to be without merit as todays UV types "may" have passed CD units as the way to go.....I am sure many will have a different opinion but my information was from the maker...

[In Canada eh]

Hey Mendocino

I didn't write that Vinny did

  I think we should look back to the Vermonters post regarding UV stlye ozonators and about the UV actually absorbing ozone.  I don't want to start the whole debate over again so please lets leave it at that.  The main issue in question is 1 the amount of ozone produced, 2) contact time, 3) offgasing.  Once again, this is just my opinion.

Also, Vinny if you E mailed Del did you happen to ask them about providing proof of a ozone residual?

[The_Bends]

......He did say a unit that I would assume is more like the high output Arctic unit does put out more ozone but they felt it becomes cost prohibtive...... "
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I am not sure whether or not you are referring to the Arctic Ozone system?  In any case it KICKS!  I have to measure the amount of ozoneit is producing with a Flowmeter, in our Pre Delivery Inspection, just so we make sure it isn't too much!

[Mendocino101]

......He did say a unit that I would assume is more like the high output Arctic unit does put out more ozone but they felt it becomes cost prohibtive...... "
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I am not sure whether or not you are referring to the Arctic Ozone system?  In any case it KICKS!  I have to measure the amount of ozoneit is producing with a Flowmeter, in our Pre Delivery Inspection, just so we make sure it isn't too much!

It could be....He mentioned that there are some high out put units but they felt they were to costly to justify them....but as Arctic makes it is available if someone may see the value in it to them.....

[stuart]

Marquis uses the Balboa Q3 ozone....