Proper order of things at filling

[anne]

OK, you'd think that now that I have done this twice, I'd have it down, but my memory is poor. I just emptied, cleaned and refilled the tub. Put Metal Gon in at 1/2 way full, then chlorine (2TBSP) as it was heating. (It is still heating now). I was planning to adjust alkalinity and then pH in a few hours.

Is that OK? I was looking at "water maitenance Northman's style" and he specifically says adjust alk, then pH, then add chlorine. It made more sense to me to get the chlorine in first......I doubt that if this was an error it is that big of a deal, but any opinions out there for the appropriate order of things, and why?

Also, for those of you who use metal gon, do you rinse your filters after letting it filter for a few hours? The bottle says nothing about this, but Northman's protocol does. Any extra steps I could skip would make my lazy side happy.

[The_Bends]

That northman's style sounds like the way we teach 'spa school'.  

Adjust the Alkalinity because it is a 'buffer' for the pH.  When the Alkalinity is happy, (Ideal range) than the pH will be easy to adjust.  The pH might 'bounce' if the alkalinity is low, and pH will stay put when the alkalinity is happy.  Only raise alkalinity, you shouldn't need to lower it.  

Now the alkalinity is raised to ideal, move the pH.  I recommend 7.2-7.4 if you are using chlorine.  Because chlorine is less effective at higher pH levels, do the pH before chlorine.  This way, the chlorine that you do put in goes a heck of alot further.  

Now, adding chlorine.  Maybe a capful (1 ounce) or 3/4, it depends on your routine.  In my showroom tubs, because I keep the pH at 7.2-7.4, I know that just a smidge under half cap (1/2oz. or 2 tbsp.)  does the trick for at least a couple of days.  

Anne, are you using our Micron filters or a paper pleated?  The micron filters will eliminate the metal-gon that you have to use, because they catch far finer particles (like metals).

[anne]

Ok, sorry- i should have been more specific. I understand the relationship between alk and pH, and to adjust alk first. I generally aim for about 100-110 and 7.4 I have very hard, basic water, so this sometimes is hard to achieve. What did not make sense to me was waiting till you adjust both of those before adding chlorine. Seems to me that it would be good to have chlorine in the water as it is heating, and before worrying about other adjustments.

I'm using paper pleated filters because I have fairly hard water. (600) As I understand it, the micron filters help remove lots of things, but not calcium. If there are other options, I'm all ears.

[The_Bends]

  I guess this topic will be open for debate!

    I believe the period of time between when you start to fill and when it is full is negligiable as far as having a sanitizer in during the period.  (45 min or so)

     I like to have the pH and Alk set, before the chlorine, and maybe it is just habit.  

As far as the filters, I am dead sold on the Micropure Micron Depth filter.  This thing is amazing.  It filters not only by suface area but depth.  
Paper filters are generally, oh, 25 - 100 sq. feet, meaning if you unraveled the pleats, it would be that square footage.  The Micron filters not only filter by surface area, (900 sq ft if you can believe), but by depth.  The 'pleats' on a micron filter are stacked on top of each other (hence 900 sqft). As the water moves through the filter media, if filters finer and finer particles eventually down to one micron. Paper pleated filters trap down to 20 microns, but over time, as the pleats begin to trap contaminates, the effectiveness of the pleats to trap smaller particles diminishes.  

To the best of my knowledge, (we don't have very high calcium levels) they (micron filters) will catch minerals like calcium as well.  The metal-gon is a sequestering agent, and should'nt be used with micropure filters.  Because you're not close to a dealer though, you will have to order them.  


:edit: I almost forgot, they carry a pre-filter that does filter out calcium before it even hits the tub, good for 6 uses!

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

  Paper pleated filters trap down to 20 microns, but over time, as the pleats begin to trap contaminates, the effectiveness of the pleats to trap smaller particles diminishes.  

I'm sorry, but you have that completely back wards. As a pleated cartridge becomes dirtier, it filters out finer particles. A slightly dirty filter will be more effective than a brand new clean filter. As for calcium (and metals) if they're DISSOLVED in the water NOTHING is going to filter them out. Notice I said "dissolved"? Once it's dissolved it becomes a liquid. Filtering it out would be like trying to filter salt out of sea water.

[The_Bends]

 

  The metal-gon is a sequestering agent, and should'nt be used with micropure filters.

:edit: I almost forgot, they carry a pre-filter that does filter out calcium before it even hits the tub, good for 6 uses!

You can use sequestering agents with the filter.

[wmccall]

Put Metal Gon in at 1/2 way full, .

Any particular reason for that?  Problems caused by metals in water are long term issues, I don't see what is to be gained by not waiting another 30 minutes. I never add any chemical to a less than full spa for fear of complications from using too much. I don't know whats in that stuff, but in higher doses can it cause problems?

[wmccall]

. Seems to me that it would be good to have chlorine in the water as it is heating,

I don't understand that logic. There is nothing for the chlorine to do in clean water. At least nothing that can't wait until its full.

[anne]

Put Metal Gon in at 1/2 way full, .

Any particular reason for that?  

Only cuz the bottle says so. The first time I used it I missed that line in the instructions, and I certainly saw no difference.

[anne]

. Seems to me that it would be good to have chlorine in the water as it is heating,

I don't understand that logic. There is nothing for the chlorine to do in clean water. At least nothing that can't wait until its full.

I did wait till it was full, but then added chlorine before I did anything else. I just figured that If I did introduce any nasties with the new water, I'd nip their little lifecycles in the bud. That, and the sooner I add chlorine, the sooner the chlorine level will be low enough for me to enjoy a soak.

[anne]

To the best of my knowledge, (we don't have very high calcium levels) they (micron filters) will catch minerals like calcium as well.  The metal-gon is a sequestering agent, and should'nt be used with micropure filters.  Because you're not close to a dealer though, you will have to order them.  

Unfortuately, I have to disagree. If the calcium is dissolved, the micropure is not catching it. (This is based on a conversation with a micropure rep. ) If it is sequestered by metal Gon, I ruin a micropure filter, as you said, so it is a catch 22. Micropure are probably great for some, but because of hard water, and the idea of throwing something away every 3-4 months, its not for me.

[wmccall]

Put Metal Gon in at 1/2 way full, .

Any particular reason for that?  

Only cuz the bottle says so. The first time I used it I missed that line in the instructions, and I certainly saw no difference.

Thats probably a good reason, though I'd love to hear their logic or someone's opinion of that logic. Obviously you took my post in the spirit it was intended and not confrontational. I came back into the forum tonight to check on the wording.

[In Canada eh]

I just figured that If I did introduce any nasties with the new water, I'd nip their little lifecycles in the bud. That, and the sooner I add chlorine, the sooner the chlorine level will be low enough for me to enjoy a soak.

Anne,

   The water from your faucet should have about a 1 to 1.5ppm chlorine residual, I can't speak about the hardness levels in your area.  The small residual in drinking water should be enough on a freshly cleaned tub so that you can adjust pH and Alk first.

[anne]

Put Metal Gon in at 1/2 way full, .

Any particular reason for that?  

Only cuz the bottle says so. The first time I used it I missed that line in the instructions, and I certainly saw no difference.

Thats probably a good reason, though I'd love to hear their logic or someone's opinion of that logic. Obviously you took my post in the spirit it was intended and not confrontational. I came back into the forum tonight to check on the wording.

Nope, I did not feel confrontationalized . Well, MY opinion of their logic is that there IS none, but printed instructions are hard to ignore. What it says specifically is: "1. While filling your spa, pour entire bottle of Metal Gon evenly around spa's edge. 2. Once spa is full, run filter for at least 30 minutes."

Could it simpy be that they are trying to minimize splashing, and any associated lawsuits?

[wmccall]

That or this is their way of making sure it gets mixed completely.   I had never heard that before.