Opinions on Clearwater and Saratoga

[gadgetcoma]

I'm about two weeks into a search for my first spa. I've decided to limit my choices to those carried by dealers relatively close to my house (20 miles or so) as I am more concerned about a good service relationship than price. So far, it looks like I still have a fair number of choices: Caldera, Marquis, Hot Springs, Clearwater, Saratoga, Cal, Artesian and LA. I've read many good things about Caldera, Hot Springs and Marquis. I've wet tested Caldera and plan to do so for Hot Springs and Marquis. I have heard things about Cal, Artesian and LA that make me think I should exclude them from the list. The challenge is understanding more about Clearwater and Saratoga. I hadn't heard of these until I found them at a local dealer. Anyone have any opinions on these two?

I thought I wanted a 6-7 person spa with a lounger, but based on testing the Caldera Niagara, I'm not convinced I need the lounger.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks.

- Leon

[wmccall]

I thought I wanted a 6-7 person spa with a lounger, but based on testing the Caldera Niagara, I'm not convinced I need the lounger.

A very personalized decision with no right answer. However, one lounger can vary from another dramatically, don't rule out all loungers based on the Niagra, or any other single tub.

[Vinny]

I don't know what you've heard about LA or Artesian but they certainly aren't in the same catagory as Cal. Where did you get your info?

My opinion is that Artesian (which I own) is at the same level as HS, Caldera, Marquis and D1. There are a lot of satisfied Artesian owners here. There is a LA Spas Rep here as well and he can answer questions.

I never heard of Clearwater and Saratoga so I can't comment on them.

As you shop DON'T listen to sales jargon - ALL sales people sell "THE BEST". You need to find the best  for you!

[gadgetcoma]

A very personalized decision with no right answer. However, one lounger can vary from another dramatically, don't rule out all loungers based on the Niagra, or any other single tub.

With every test, I'm learning just how personal the choice is and how the tiniest thing can make a difference. My comment on the Caldera was that the Niagara was so nice without a lounger compared to the Olympia with one (they didn't have a Tahitian or Geneva). Then I tried the Clearwater and began to wonder about the lounger again.   At least all of this wet testing is fun and relaxing!

I'm just going to keep checking out my options until I'm happy. I'm not really predisposed one way or the other yet.

Thanks for the input.

[gadgetcoma]

I don't know what you've heard about LA or Artesian but they certainly aren't in the same catagory as Cal. Where did you get your info?

My opinion is that Artesian (which I own) is at the same level as HS, Caldera, Marquis and D1. There are a lot of satisfied Artesian owners here. There is a LA Spas Rep here as well and he can answer questions.

I never heard of Clearwater and Saratoga so I can't comment on them.

As you shop DON'T listen to sales jargon - ALL sales people sell "THE BEST". You need to find the best  for you!

Most of my info so far has come from reading articles and forums on the web. I realize that this isn't a perfect source of information. It's just one perspective.

I hadn't heard anything about Artesian before, but if it's being compared to Caldera (which I'm already impressed with), than there's certainly no harm in testing it. The Caldera dealer has Artesian too.

As for LA and Cal, the dealer I went to today has both so, despite what I had heard, I wet tested them. They're not for me (at least not the models I tried). I was also surprised to find that I wasn't that crazy about the Marquis Epic which looked like it had the right size and features for me. I had heard a lot about the brand and had high expectations. It's that pesky personal taste thing again, I guess.  

I plan to check out HS next weekend and had completely forgotten about D1. I'll have to see if there is a dealer around.

BTW - The Clearwater 9100 was very nice. It has a lot of power for a good massage, with flexibility to tone it down if needed. They have a 20 year shell warranty, which seemed pretty impressive compared to others. Don't know exactly what they do differently to have that much confidence in the shell. The thing that makes me hesitate is that it has 3 pumps and if all 3 are running, there's not enough power for the heater. This sounds a bit odd and not exactly desirable.

As for dealers, I have been quite impressed with the two I've visited so far. They have not really said much about the competition, nor have they touted breakthrough features that only their models have. They talk about construction, options, GPM (not HP) and tell you to test and find a good fit. Also, both dealers have been in business for at least 15 years, with many years of experience with their brands.

Thanks for the input. I feel better getting this information to help make sure I'm not missing important details.

[salesdvl]

Just Curious, what didnt you like about the L.A.?  Which models did you wet test?

[gadgetcoma]

Just Curious, what didnt you like about the L.A.?  Which models did you wet test?

I honestly don't remember the models I tested. Both were around 90" x 90" and had loungers. One had the sound system built in. I found the space somewhat crowded, especially the foot well. The waterfalls were very annoying - even with the least amount of water going through them, they splashed too much. The massage action didn't feel very invigorating compared to the Clearwater and Caldera. They also seemed cumbersome to enter - there didn't seem to be a relatively flat surface to step into. Overall, I felt like I was just sitting in a soaking tub compared to some of the other spas.

[Anoroc]

Can you tell me what you didn't like about the marquis epic.  I am just a consumer but I was interested in the Marquis Epic at one time but the dealer did not have own on the floor at the time becauase he had just opened up.

I too have heard alot of great things about it.  Did the Trizone system throw you off?

[Vanguard]

Throwing my two cents in, I agree with Vinny.  This is a personal choice.  You seem to be mentioning some pretty good brands and should be able to find one you like.  I know Calderas are among the most comfortable out there.  The loungers are great.  You should have gotten a pretty good idea of the Tahitian lounger by testing the Olympia.  The Geneva is a bit larger.  The jets in the Tahitian and Geneva will be a bit stronger than the Olympia.  By testing the Niagara, you got a  good idea of what those would feel like.

Saratoga is mainly a regional brand found mostly in the Northeast as they are built in New York.  Clearwater has been around for awhile as kind of a mid-level brand.  They don't have a bad rep, but don't really have a good rep either.

Stick to the Calderas, Hot Springs, Sundances, etc, and you will find a great spa.

Good Luck.

BTW, my favorite is the Caldera Geneva, but my wife is too short, so we bought a Hot Spring Vanguard.  We love it.

[MarKee]

I too wonder what you didn't like about the Epic, I have never heard of anything but praise for that spa.  If the dealer didn't show you how to properly use the tri-zone control, you might have not had the best soaking experience.

As far as the 20 year warranty on the shell.  It is probably on the structure of the shell, not the surface.  Anyone in the spa business will tell you that if a shell has an issue, 99% of the time it's the surface of the shell that has a potential for problems.  I know that quality built spas will never have an issue as far as structure.  Most shells are 1/2-3/4" thick.

[gadgetcoma]

Can you tell me what you didn't like about the marquis epic.  I am just a consumer but I was interested in the Marquis Epic at one time but the dealer did not have own on the floor at the time becauase he had just opened up.

I too have heard alot of great things about it.  Did the Trizone system throw you off?

I think it was the comparison to the Caldera Niagara and the Clearwater. The Marquis seemed more cramped (smaller footwell, in particular). the controls (diverter, etc.) didn't seem as solid as the Caldera.  They felt a bit flimsy by comparison. The Marquis also seemed to be somewhat limited in how many jets were active at the same time. Not that I'm looking for a million jets ... it just seemed like I could only get upper back or lower back but not both together (just an example - the same thing happened in all of the seats).

[gadgetcoma]

I too wonder what you didn't like about the Epic, I have never heard of anything but praise for that spa.  If the dealer didn't show you how to properly use the tri-zone control, you might have not had the best soaking experience.

As far as the 20 year warranty on the shell.  It is probably on the structure of the shell, not the surface.  Anyone in the spa business will tell you that if a shell has an issue, 99% of the time it's the surface of the shell that has a potential for problems.  I know that quality built spas will never have an issue as far as structure.  Most shells are 1/2-3/4" thick.

Good tips, thanks. I'll check with the dealer on the tri-zone control. I hadn't thought about what kind of shell warranty. I will make a point of asking on this.

[Spatech_tuo]

Good tips, thanks. I'll check with the dealer on the tri-zone control. I hadn't thought about what kind of shell warranty. I will make a point of asking on this.

I have to agree, a lot of these 20 yr and "lifetime" shell warranties have limitations and aren't what you think they are. They're designbed to "wow" you but often don't have the teeth you think they have.

Keep wet testing and you'll find your spa. As you're seeing, what works for one person doesn't always work for others so while it's great to get advice, you have to find out for yourself. If someone says they tested the Niagara, Epic, Grandee, Optima.... and they loved it (or didn't) all that should say is maybe you should try it but it doesn't mean you'll have the same reaction as I think you may be finding.

[DoubleA]

In your search for a possible lounger, The Tahitian and Geneva in the caldera are similar to the Olympia but totally different in the jets in them and the therapy you get.  The niagra is a great tub, if your still interested in the lounger you gotta wet test the higher end caldera if you're comparing to the Niagra which is in the higher end where the Olympia is in the middle to lower end of the Caldera line.

[NE-Phil]

Saratoga Spas are made locally here in the Albany, NY area.
They were the very first spa I wet tested when I was looking last year. I found the jets were not as powerful compared to the Marquis Reward I eventually purchased.
The lounger was fine for me but that's something you'll have to wet test.  As already mentioned, it's going to be different for everyone.

Phil