The Truth About Ozonators in Spas

[tanstaafl2]

Vita and Reflections spas have a long tube for contact and injectors as part of the system, at least in the higher end series. Mine has one anyway.

[Chas]

I think we have a misunderstanding here - UV is one of the two types of Ozone generators. It is also a type of 'purifier system' which I haven't seen much on spas.

I had a customer with a built-in spa that had a UV system - it was a huge box with a clear pipe about four feet long. In the center of the clear pipe was an UV light bulb. As the water passed through the system, it was exposed to UV light.

It was not working when I took over the account, and it later developed a leak so I removed it from the system.

UV ozone systems use an UV light in an AIR chamber to create ozone, CD use a high voltage discharge to do the same thing.

[In Canada eh]

In order for ozone to destroy anything it has to come in contact with its target, any length of piping after it injection point longer than a couple of feet would be good enough.  After that, anything passing though the stream of bubbles would also be treated.
 Guys and Girls, I know what you mean by the term contact chamber but consider the amount of ozone being produced by our small chips.  If we were using a system like the drinking water industry then, contact time or CT would become an issue. The CT in a 400 gal. tub at 1 part per million of ozone is a matter of minutes.  Since ozone has next to no residual its all gone in about that minute.  If you take the amount of time the water takes to flow though your contact chamber at say 35 gpm( a small circ pump) you would need alot more than 14 or 15 feet and alot bigger contact chamber to have any greater effect.  I have spent the last 4 1/2 years in the maintenance dept. of a 32 million gal/day water treatment plant that uses chlorine and ozone.  I have spent time at other plant that use chlorine and UV.  

[Chas]

I have spent the last 4 1/2 years in the maintenance dept. of a 32 million gal/day water treatment plant that uses chlorine and ozone.  I have spent time at other plant that use chlorine and UV.  

Apples to oranges. The flow rate in a HotSpring spa is about 6 gpm, so a fourteen foot pipe makes a radical difference in the amount of off-gas. I have owned both, sold both.

Also, I doubt you have bathers in your water tanks. The off-gassing from your system would probably send most folks running - or to a doctor. Spas use contact chambers just for that purpose: to reduce off-gassing.

Also, the ozone generators in a HotSpring - and I understand Sundance has now jumped on board - are of a much larger Chamber design, not the smaller chip design. They have a stainless steel and ceramic chamber with a larger power supply.

The chamber is supposed to last for ten years or more, while the chips must be replaced after 9000 hours of operation.

[In Canada eh]

Chas
My last post may have been a bit snarky and I apologize for that.  I did not know of the 6gpm pump and that was my point at 35 gpm water is moving way to fast HS may be doing things different then when I looked at thier tubs.  You may be surprized about bathers in resevoir tanks(just kidding), Its OK to drink the water.  I do not consider myself any kind of expert on Hot Tub water, stuff happens way to fast, all I can do is relate it to the systems we use.  If you want to know whats coming form your tap ask me, if you want to know about Tub water there are better educated people than myself.

Enough of the nice stuff, I would like to correct you on the UV part though.  UV sterilizer do not creat ozone, to create ozone gas you need a high voltage current and oxygen.  In my industry they are primarily used to treat wastewater and in oder for them to work properly the water must pass though very slowly.

                              Once agian I apologize for the tone

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I had a customer with a built-in spa that had a UV system - it was a huge box with a clear pipe about four feet long. In the center of the clear pipe was an UV light bulb. As the water passed through the system, it was exposed to UV light.

That's a UV sterilizer, quite different from an ozonator. In fact, while both use UV lights, the frequency of the light is considerably different.

[Vinny]

Artesian is such a well built spa ... they don't need no stinkin' ozone!

Actually, the Prozone was an option for me and I asked the dealer. Their recommendation was pretty much on what I found - ozone isn't the cure all of tubs and it wasn't worth the extra money. They outfit their tubs with standard ozone because most of their customers wanted ozone and it did a little something but Artesian didn't equip their tubs with CD ozone unless the upgrade was bought.

As far as efficiency of ozone, you need to remember that water treatment ozone units usually (always(?)) have 100% O2 attached to it ... we breathe 21% - there's a 79% reduction in efficiency even if it is a CD unit.

[In Canada eh]

As far as efficiency of ozone, you need to remember that water treatment ozone units usually (always(?)) have 100% O2 attached to it ... we breathe 21% - there's a 79% reduction in efficiency even if it is a CD unit.

BIG ASS O2 UNITS and some very scary scubbers, Scott Air packs. gas detectors and sirens that will clear a city block.  Please don't get the wrong idea commercial chlorine gas has all the same stuff, but handled correctly is very very safe

[Chas]

Enough of the nice stuff, I would like to correct you on the UV part though.  UV sterilizer do not creat ozone, to create ozone gas you need a high voltage current and oxygen.  In my industry they are primarily used to treat wastewater and in oder for them to work properly the water must pass though very slowly.

                               Once agian I apologize for the tone

No need to apologize - I think we are getting closer to the nub here: UV ozone generators do, in fact create ozone. There are thousands of them in use to this day, even though the Corona Discharge unit is taking over.

What I think you may be missing, and forgive me if I'm not making this clear - pun fully intended - is that we are talking about two very different systems.

In one, air is drawn through a chamber with an ultraviolet lamp - and most defintely creates ozone. This is what Del and other companies were founded on, and some still embrace.

In the other - and it would make sense that you are familiar with this type of equipment given your area of expertise - the WATER is drawn through the UV light. As you said, the water must go through slowly, and as Doc posted above, the light frequency, while still ultraviolet, is different.

Phew. Fun.

I should mention that I worked with Del many years ago as they engineered a system for HotSpring tubs. HotSpring was firmly set against ozone at the time - this would be the late eighties - and the engineers from Del coudn't get a foot in the door. I was a Del dealer, one of the early ones, and so they came to me to see HotSpring spas in action, and they asked lots of questions. I was not the closest HotSpring dealer, but I would talk to them. I was then presented with a handful of units designed to retrofit HotSpring tubs, and we did beta testing.

These were UV ozone generators with a circ pump, injector and power adapter in a self-contained unit. I had a Grandee in the BOQ at a local naval base, and we had to put the Delzone unit in an equipment room. So, we plumbed it in with about fifteen feet of vinyl tubing each way, and guess what? It was the best one of the test.

[Chas]

Here are some pics of some UV ozone generators:

This is a real basic unit available at Robert' Hot Tubs - rhtubs.com

This is Del's last remaining UV unit:

[In Canada eh]

Chas

this is getting very confusing yourself, Vinny and I are posting back and forth on 2 different topics.  We really should stick to one.  I took a quick look at the units you posted the pics of and did some quick searches on yahoo.  I have to admit this may be something I am not familiar with, but learning something new is always a good thing.  The beast we use for drinking water is 46,000 volts,02 extraction and can achieve a 5 ppm count.  As you have said it is drasticly different.  I will dig up the info I have at work on Monday and in the meantime I will snoop around the internet for the units you showed. You never know I might be able to say I learned something today!!

[Chas]

There ya go.

[Vinny]

Chas

this is getting very confusing yourself, Vinny and I are posting back and forth on 2 different topics.  We really should stick to one.  I took a quick look at the units you posted the pics of and did some quick searches on yahoo.  I have to admit this may be something I am not familiar with, but learning something new is always a good thing.  The beast we use for drinking water is 46,000 volts,02 extraction and can achieve a 5 ppm count.  As you have said it is drasticly different.  I will dig up the info I have at work on Monday and in the meantime I will snoop around the internet for the units you showed. You never know I might be able to say I learned something today!!

Now that's what I want for my tub!!!

[In Canada eh]

Now that's what I want for my tub!!![/quote]


;DJust think what 1250 pounds per day of ozone gas will do to your headrests and cover

[Snowbird]

Interesting thread.  I am definitely learning a thing or two.  But I need to know more about this contact chamber you are talking about.  Is it a tube, a box or a hose?

I have an 8 month old Jacuzzi 385 with a CD ozonator. If you believe the web site, "....designed to provide the maximum amount of ozone concentration" it has a contact chamber, but if I wanted to be sure, where would I look and what would I look for?

A few months after the tub was installed I had some issue with cloudiness.  The tech came out and said the ozonator went bad and put a new one in.  No problems with cloudiness since.  To be fair I did a water change and switched from MPS to Dichlor so it isn't exactly a scientic finding.

www.jacuzzi.com
Ozone Systems
Ozone is the most powerful oxidizer available. Corona Discharge (CD) produces ozone and it instantly zaps bacteria and other harmful chemicals from your spa water preventing unwanted residue in your spa and minimizes sulfur odors. The ozone systems are designed specifically to be compatible with our control systems and stereo units. The ozone-ready plumbing system exclusive to most 2005 and 2006 Jacuzzi® hot tub models is uniquely designed to provide the maximum amount of ozone concentration using our CD units.