My hot tub is getting warmer

[D.P. Roberts]

I think that it is foolish to say that anyone KNOWS with any certainty what the cause is. There are going to be people with "proof" on each side of the argument. I'm not going to watch one video, and accept it for fact. I'm also not going to watch Gore's movie and accept it for fact. I question anyone who clings too vehemently to either side of the argument for their motivation.

Too true. After all, global warming is a theory. Evolution is a theory. Even gravity is a theory.

However, almost all scientists believe  that global warming - the idea climates are changing rapidly, and humanity is to blame for these changes - is the most scientifically valid theory for what's happening on our planet right now.

That's a fact.

Is global warming a theory , wich may later be proven false? Certainly. Is there real debate in the scientific community over whether it's probably true or not? No.

[Campsalot]

Reese says "Evidently you, Terminator, Thearm, and the others that were quick to jump on the "hoax" bandwagon are smarter/better informed than the vast majority, including most of the people who study climate."

I disagree!  Site your sources; "including most of the people who study climate."  Perhaps it is fairer to say that some of us posses more common sense than others.  Granted for every source you site I'll site 5 to dispute it. That is the problem, there is no proof!

The entire Global Warming (GW) idea is a myth riding the the governments coat tails!  It has become an industry and now has a life of it's own.  Do you know that if global warming were finally de-bunked millions of people would lose there jobs.  All based on the misconception that Co2 gas is causing the earth warm!

If nothing else it makes for exciting debate!

[D.P. Roberts]

Reese says "Evidently you, Terminator, Thearm, and the others that were quick to jump on the "hoax" bandwagon are smarter/better informed than the vast majority, including most of the people who study climate."

I disagree!  Site your sources; "including most of the people who study climate."  Perhaps it is fairer to say that some of us posses more common sense than others.  Granted for every source you site I'll site 5 to dispute it. That is the problem, there is no proof!

Quoting web sites is not proof. Peer reviewed scientific studies are proof. Any review or analysis of the scientific evidence shows support for the "global warming" issue. For example, a Science Magazine article (3 December 2004) showed that of 928 research articles that mentioned global warming in their abstracts, 75% supported the idea that humans are causing global warming. 25% mentioned global warming, but did not directly attribute a cause. But ZERO percent - not one single study - refuted human-caused global warming.

Quote all the web sites and "experts" you want. I would be very interested in hearing about any study of the literature that showed otherwise. If the conclusions mentioned above - which are also the conclusions mentioned in the recent IPCC report and Al Gore's video - are wrong, then you are correct and global warming is a myth, and I will gladly recant everything I have said.

[anne]

I dont see why those of you on the "hoax" bandwagon are so bothered by the idea that global warming deserves research. How can you so close-mindedly just say that because there is no "proof" (yet) that there is not the possibility that GW is real, and is in fact man made? The essence of science is to explore theories like this! It is so selfish and shortsighted to say that this research is a waste of money. And I think that the bigger picture goes far beyond the reality or myth of global warming- that is just a PART of the total change that our species (may be) creating.

[Tman122]

I dont see why those of you on the "hoax" bandwagon are so bothered by the idea that global warming deserves research. How can you so close-mindedly just say that because there is no "proof" (yet) that there is not the possibility that GW is real, and is in fact man made? The essence of science is to explore theories like this! It is so selfish and shortsighted to say that this research is a waste of money. And I think that the bigger picture goes far beyond the reality or myth of global warming- that is just a PART of the total change that our species (may be) creating.

There's only one or two on the hoax bandwagon, the not to worry band wagon is loaded to capacity and we want nothing more than cleaner burning cars and factorys. But we don't want a whole bunch of tax payer cash lining the pockets of people confesed to the fact that our world is coming to an end because of GW.

Why is a more moderate approach so out of line? It seems that if you are not for it or against it you are suddenly for it in one camp and against it in the other depending on which camp is looking at you!! We have a whole lot of lifetimes to figure it out as a society, this lifetime does not need to overindulge in the cause, but it does need to focus on it's long term cure for our planets betterment long after our grandkids, grandkids, grandkids are gone.

[Campsalot]

Quoting web sites is not proof. Peer reviewed scientific studies are proof. Any review or analysis of the scientific evidence shows support for the "global warming" issue. For example, a Science Magazine article (3 December 2004) showed that of 928 research articles that mentioned global warming in their abstracts, 75% supported the idea that humans are causing global warming. 25% mentioned global warming, but did not directly attribute a cause. But ZERO percent - not one single study - refuted human-caused global warming.

Quote all the web sites and "experts" you want. I would be very interested in hearing about any study of the literature that showed otherwise. If the conclusions mentioned above - which are also the conclusions mentioned in the recent IPCC report and Al Gore's video - are wrong, then you are correct and global warming is a myth, and I will gladly recant everything I have said.

I see, if the government (Intergovermental Panel On Climate Change IPCC) and Al Gore say it then it must be true!   Right, open your umbrellas folks the sky is truly falling. Remember the government study on acid rain?

[Brewman]

Or the government study on sacherine?  That was banned for decades- until recently when they realized they were wrong.  Not that I'm a big sacharine fan- the stuff tastes kinda icky.  
 Then they attacked aspartame- but that went silent when the sacharine blunder was uncovered.

One other thing to consider- make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.  Sometimes solutions to problems just shift the issue and in the grand scheme of things don't make too much difference except in perception.

[Campsalot]

There's only one or two on the hoax bandwagon, the not to worry band wagon is loaded to capacity and we want nothing more than cleaner burning cars and factorys. But we don't want a whole bunch of tax payer cash lining the pockets of people confesed to the fact that our world is coming to an end because of GW.

Why is a more moderate approach so out of line? It seems that if you are not for it or against it you are suddenly for it in one camp and against it in the other depending on which camp is looking at you!! We have a whole lot of lifetimes to figure it out as a society, this lifetime does not need to overindulge in the cause, but it does need to focus on it's long term cure for our planets betterment long after our grandkids, grandkids, grandkids are gone.

Well said and I agree!  Once again I'm not saying we should continue to burn fossil fuels, add fossil fuel power plants (nuclear is much cleaner), and ignore our enviroment.  I am saying GW is not man made!  I am all for smart energy technologies like wind, Hydrogen engines, coal gasification (diesel), and solar.

However because GW is become a political action committee and an industry in it's self we are faced with killing this monster before it's too late.  The big problem is we (the US) are into self mutilation.  It's is cool to acknowledge how crappy we are as a country.  On the other hand we are the mean nasty buggers that consume the majority of oil and pollute the majority of air and kill the majority of all things living.  We bad!  I just wonder what  will happen when China becomes the do-badder.  China is adding a coal power plant about once a week and 7 million cars a year, it won't be long before they take the emissions crown away from the US. I wonder if it will change the debate at all? "  How do you say "Al Gore" in Chinese?   [ch36817][ch20041][ch35789]  [ch22269][ch38469][ch20114][ch32852][ch32593]   (Father Internet)

[Bonibelle]

So lets talk about acid rain!!!

[Brewman]

Before anyone goes around claiming that the government or corporations, or anyone but "me" needs to do something consider:

1.  We all own hot tubs that consume a lot of electricity- many outside of this forum would consider that very ungreen.

2.  I own several non essential polluters- Lawn mower, snowblower, weed wacker,
     a boat, a truck, two cars, and a motorcycle.  Many would consider that very non green.

3.  I also own several TV sets, a computer, and all sorts of appliances that consume electricity just sitting there.  I have air conditioning.  

 4.  I don't carpool, or take mass transit.  

I have a feeling we all share some if not more of the above to one degree or another.

Point being that before we start harping on others we should all have our own houses in order.  I for one don't intend to change anything about my "non green" habbits I listed above.

But then I'm not going around demanding that "someone" has to do "something"

Call me what you will- but I suspect my situation is plenty common amoung this group.

[Tman122]

Hear, hear Brewman!!

Amoungst???

[Brewman]

I've been out of school way too long to know how to spell.  

[anne]

It seems that if you are not for it or against it you are suddenly for it in one camp and against it in the other depending on which camp is looking at you!!

I never said that I was "not for or against..." I (in slightly different words) said that clinging too strongly to either side makes one less reputable, as they seem to have something to prove. Extremists "for" seem to want to scare everyone. Extremist  "against" seem uncaring and lacadasical.  (sp- sorry) I'm very much in the camp that believes that humans contribute to GW, and it is real, I just am open minded to any research that either debunks that, or helps us to figure out what *else* is causing it.
 
I'm going to be late for work now, but I could not handle leaving all day with anyone thinking that!!!!!

[D.P. Roberts]

I see, if the government (Intergovermental Panel On Climate Change IPCC) and Al Gore say it then it must be true!   Right, open your umbrellas folks the sky is truly falling. Remember the government study on acid rain?

No, what you're saying is the OPPOSITE of what I'm saying. What I said whas that ALL the scientific research points to human-caused global warming. Al Gore, the IPCC, the AMA, and every other scientific organization have come to the same conclusion, based on that research. I don't believe it because Al Gore said it, I believe it because the research supports it - and Al Gore and everyone else have come to the same conclusion.

I'd be happy to discuss saccharine and acid rain, but those are different issues. Either way, bringing them up is faulty logic. What you're saying is "the government says that global warming is happening. The government said that saccharine was bad, and the government was wrong about that. Therefore, the government is wrong about global warming." That conclusion does not follow.

I would say the same thing to those of you in the "moderate" group. If all the scientific research indicates that a drastic change is necessary, what basis do you have for coming to a different conclusion?

And finally, as I will do with every post on this topic, I challenge everyone to focus on the scientific research, not the claims of any one person, television program, or web site. The scientific research says global warming is happening, and it's a serious problem. If you're really sure global warming isn't happening, show me one scientific study that says otherwise.

[In Canada eh]

The big problem is we (the US)  

[size=36]PHEWWW ![/size]

   At least now I can relax, knowing that this will not effect Canada and that we Canadians have not contributed to GW in any way