The longer I look...the more confused I get!!

[gores95]

OK for those following my saga we installed a new patio off the deck in the backyard with the intention of purchasing a new hot tub.  I figured this process would take a week or two and it now going on six weeks with me getting more and more confused as to which tub to choose.  With all the help and suggestions I am getting on this board I HAD (I thought) found my tub, Caldera Niagara, had wet tested, enjoyed the tub and was ready to buy.  The easy thing would have been to pull the trigger and by now I would be soaking!

But then I saw the Sundance Optima and added that to my list.  Have not wet tested yet.

Finally, yesterday I visited the local Marquis dealer and added another to my list...Marquis Destiny.  Have not wet tested yet.

OK so I have three good tubs from three solid manufacturers.  Prices include everything: steps, lifter, chems, delivery:

Niagara....$8500 (no sales tax since dealer in another state)
Optima.....$9500 (same as Niagara regarding sales tax) but I think I can get down to $9000.
Destiny....$9060 before tax but dealer said he would work with me on price.  I am hoping for $9000 WITH tax.

As dealers go I would lean towards the Marquis guy...in-state and more local than the others also has been in business 30 years.  The two PA dealers were relatively new but seemed very nice and helpful.  I was actually suprised that the Marquis was as expensive as it is because it is actually a little smaller than the Sundance/Caldera (both 7' 5" square vs. 7' square and 485/500 gallons vs. 370).  All tubs have two pumps but the first two also have a circlulating pump which the Marquis does not.  According to the dealer no big deal there.  Marquis also adds a floating second remote and an in-home wireless monitor both of which looks pretty cool.

We also like to entertain so I am looking for a tub that you can balance power over ALL seats.  The Marquis dealer actually said that in their higher end tubs you have to direct flow to a limited number of seats/jets as opposed to every seat.  Acutally gets a more powerful massage.  Kinda made sense but would that prevent all seats from getting good flow with all diverters balanced?  This is a concern.  Concerning jet type the Caldera/Sundance appears to have lots of small Euro Jets while the Marquis has the larger, and I am assuming better jets.  All three would seem to filter well and all three are using ozone in one form or another!  Also foot jets are very important and the Sundance looks to have the most by far.  Caldera has the Euphoria jet and sole soothers.  Not sure about the Marquis.  

I know what you are going to say...wet test the other two, which I plan to do.  Pretend though for some reason you could not wet test and were trying to get the best tub for the money.  Should the smaller Marquis be just as expensive as its larger counterparts?  I actually thought the Marquis would come in lower.  The other factor is its been a month now since I tested the Caldera and I am not sure I would be able to compare it to the other two.

One more thing...we were looking for the smooth white or platinum tub color.  The Marquis guy told me he has sold exactly ZERO all white tubs, instead his clients prefer the Silver Swirl.  Its off white and he says it hides things better.  Do the dealers here agree to stay away from the white color Marquis?

I know we have a few Marquis/Sundance dealers on this site and I know of at least one Caldera dealer.  Any light anyone could shed on my "plight" would be appreciated!  

Thanks as usual,

Marc

[wmccall]

Get a notebook, stop back at each place and make notes of your dislikes and likes.  Since you have seen all of them once, have something written for each one ahead of time.  Be sure each sales guy  sees you taking notes.

[Stemay]

Don't over-analyze.  Go back with the notebook and write down what's important to you.  Get in the tubs and they will speak to you.  Listen to them.  

I tend to over-analyze sometimes.  I like to look at everything that's out there.  Usually end up coming back to one of the first things I saw anyway.  Artesian was only the second dealer we went to.  We loved the dealer.  Fell absolutely in LOVE with the tub and just knew it was the right decision for us.  We never felt a need to look anywhere else.  It felt so right and so perfect for us.  We don't care what else is out there.  We just love our Piper Glen.  It is unusual for us to make a decision this way, but we trusted our feelings.  

I would not buy a tub I couldn't wet test.  I might say my tub is a fantastic tub, but it may not be the best tub for you and you aren't going to know that unless you've been in it.  My husband were in several tubs at the other dealer and even their strongest did not have strong enough power for us when they were on full power.  The sales person tried to lecture us that we wouldn't need it much stronger.  Well, we wanted it stronger.  Our tub's jets are more powerful than the other brand we wet tested and they are perfect for us.  We don't keep them on full power the whole time in the tub, but we always start out with them full power and LOVE it (need it).  Most of our guests don't ever put them on full power, as it is too strong for them.  They probably would have thought the first tubs we wet tested were fine.   You can't know this without wet testing.  You wouldn't buy a car without driving it.  Sitting in it might give you an idea of whether if feels comfortable, but you will still have no idea if it fits your needs as far as the drive goes.....how does it handle turns, how does it feel going over potholes, can you see over the dashboard, can your spouse fit in the passenger seat.  You need to test drive the hot tub.

If you make your notes, absolutely love all the wet tests and are still confused, then look at the options and ask yourself how crucial that particular option is for you.  For example, if you are planning on entertaining a good deal, then the smaller tub may not be the most practical.  If you LOVE the foot jets in one tub more than the rest, but that tub doesn't have a jet that really "does it for you" in the low back and you have chronic low back problems, then those fabulous foot jets might not be quite as important.  

We did not like the tubs that you had to take away power from one seat to get full power in another seat.  That's usually okay for just two people in the tub, but if you are entertaining, then that just seemed inconvenient to me.  

Good luck.  Listen to your gut.  

[tmknies1]

Great post Stemay.

[drewstar]

You're right,   It should come down to a wet test.  

But since you asked, based on looking at the tubs,  for me, I think I'd go with either the Sundance or Caldera.  With a slight edge to Sundance for the foot dome, which I personaly prefer.

The Caldera seems to have calf jets, and from what I can tell, the Marquis seems to be lacking here.

Both the Caldera and Sundance are a tad bigger, which I think since entertaining is high on your list is a plus.  

 I like the circ pumps with the ozone.  It's my understanding that a combination of 24/7 CD ozone witha circ pump is the key to a successful ozone system.   How does the Marquis provide ozone? Only during set filter cycles?

The Marquis is smaller, and you are paying for the extra floating remote, and in house sensor, for me, that's a bit of unesecary flash, but adds to the overall cost.

Also, from yesterdays threads It appears that Marquis insulation is more a "solid foam" than a "full foam".  For what it's worth, I think the other two have a slight edge.

But all three brands are recognized as being quality units and  I think it really does come down to the wet test...sorry.


oops. I'll add a PS to my thread.  MArKee provided pics of the  current Marquis models and  it seems the insulation was stepped up a bit from what we saw in the other thread.  So, I think, for me it's a non issue.

[Spatech_tuo]

 I was actually suprised that the Marquis was as expensive as it is because it is actually a little smaller than the Sundance/Caldera (both 7' 5" square vs. 7' square and 485/500 gallons vs. 370).  

If you're going to have more than 3+ people in the spa you'll appreciate the extra space of the Caldera and Sundance for sure. I'm like the kids, I never stay in one place long and like to stretch out and love having a large spa. Since you're going no lounge to save space I'd suggest you stay big. For Marquis, I think you'd want to look at the Epic to match the size of the other 2.

You get one chance to find the right tub for you. Wet test blindly, without any preconcieved idea of which you prefer.

[anne]

When shopping I was sure that I would only want/need a 7' tub, but as it turned out, the one I really liked was 8'. I felt silly buying such a big tub for mostly just 2 people to use- but I dont even think about it anymore. I love having room to stretch out.

Not that I'd base your decision on tub size, but certainly dont go smaller if you think you'll entertain a lot.

[Gomboman]

gores95, six weeks isn't too bad. It took me over 2 years to buy a spa. Buying a toaster would probably take me more than six weeks.

I agree with Spatech and Anne--Go Big.

[DPS]

Marquis Spas, for several years now, are fully foamed.  In addition to the foam they have Low-e Wrap around the outside of the foam (between the full foam and the exterior panels), beneath the footwell, and behind the equipment bay.  There is no better insulated spa out there.

My stores sell a very large amount of spas in "Glacier", the solid white shell.  The Silver Swirl and Taupe Granite colors make up the rest of the top 3.  Which one of the 3 is number 1 varies month to month.

With the Tri-Zone Jet Selectors set on "2", there are jets on in every seat.  With 320 gallons per minute out of the jets, there is enough to go around.  When you don't have 6 people in the spa, and want exceptional therapy for 1 or 2, you can select "1" or "3" on the Tri-Zone Jet Selectors and have HK-40 Jets for any part of your body that needs intensive therapy.

When you wet test you will be able to check this out.  You will also be able to see how much room is in a Destiny.  Take a tape measure with you if you like.  Compare the available interior room and footwell size with other "larger" spas at other dealers.  You will find that in most 90"-96" spas there isn't much more usable room, if any.  When you run out of foot and leg room it really doesn't matter how many more seats there are in the tub.

As far as the 24 hour circ. pump story, keep in mind that that system limits your turnover ratio to around 10 - 15 times per day that every drop of water is filtered.  With the higher flow system on the Marquis, standard setting will have a turnover ratio of 60, and can be doubled or tripled if the spa is getting heavy use.  You can't make the 24 hour circ. pump run for 36 hours in a day to account for heavy use.  

The ozone system functions very impressively.  Marquis' Constant Clean System filters, sanitizes, and ozonates the water twice a day, 9600 gallons at a time.  It also automatically repeats this process 30 minutes after every use.  So it is actually accounting for bather load, something that a constantly running, low-volume, circ. pump does not do.

As far as costing less than the other spas you mentioned, why should it?  Look at the warranties, the exteriors, the water maintenance system, the therapy system, etc.  They should cost less.

[cappy2449]

i approached the whole buying process by first researching (on this forum for one), and then narrowing it down to no more then 5 to actually go see and try to wet test...i think any more then that and you are going to get so confused that you may wind up buying nothing....it takes 5 minutes to research on this forum the top 4 -5 ....good luck....

[MarKee]

The Destiny is an awesome tub with plenty of room if you're looking to entertain.  Marquis' tub volumes are based off of an average fill level, most manufactures will inflate their spas gallonage specs by measuring gallonage up to the lip of the spa.  You are looking at 3 reputable brands.  I would point out the warranty as a key factor.  You get a transferrable warranty with the Marquis that you won't get with the other two brands.  I would get a copy of all 3 warranties and compare them, some things you will see:

Plumbing - Marquis warranties 7 years, Caldera and Sundance only 5.

Siding/Cabinet - Marquis warranties 7 years, Caldera only 3 years and Sundance only 2.  Marquis also covers fading and warping of siding, I don't believe the other two do.  Caldera's warranty states "Fading and weathering of the surface will naturally occur over time and are not considered defects."

Failing to maintain proper water chemistry - I believe this invalidates both Caldera and the Sundance warranty, but Marquis has a no-fault warranty.

Ozonators - Marquis warranties this component for 3 years, whereas Caldera warranties it for 1 year.

Headrests - There are no warranties on the headrests Caldera and Sundance put in their spas.  Marquis has molded head rests that don't have to be replaced.  Why would you put something in the spa you build if you are not going to warranty it?  

[Mendocino101]

I think this board has changed here of late ...I am not going to try and say what I feel is the best but some the things written in this thread are simply inaccurate...I recently had the chance to look at several different makes in the last thirty days and I think if you look at all three tubs and if you can take an 8 year old with you and in about 10 minutes they can tell you which of the three is the better built spa....its not tough to see when looked at with eyes wide open.....

[sandiego]

Personally I really like having a circulation pump in the spa.

Also the footwell in the Niagra is extremely large. Not quite sure how big the other two are, but you can fit 6-7 adults legitmately in the Niagra. Also seats are varied heights and have different functions (Hot Tub Circuit Therapy) so people of all shapes and sizes can find a seat that fits them best. Other great feature about Caldera is the foot ridge, which really helps you stay in place when you are trying to soak.

All three are good spas and you have done well in your research. Marquis must get extra points because of the dealer, the dealer is a key part of making you happy.

[Mendocino101]

San Diego,

that's a nice post...just simple and straightfoward advice....I appreciate that....

[shabba34]

I think this board has changed here of late ...I am not going to try and say what I feel is the best but some the things written in this thread are simply inaccurate...I recently had the chance to look at several different makes in the last thirty days and I think if you look at all three tubs and if you can take an 8 year old with you and in about 10 minutes they can tell you which of the three is the better built spa....its not tough to see when looked at with eyes wide open.....

As far as I read, the entire topic was pro-Marquis with the exception of Drewstar's post.  Are you saying the innaccuracies lie within the pro-Marquis posts?  I carry neither of the 3 spas mentioned, but found that comments like "no better insulated spa out there" pertaining to Marquis to be the only misleading info on this topic, as well as comments made on 24hr circ pumps and ozone.

Which spa would an 8 year old pick?  I'm curious...