Genesis Automatic Bromine Generators?

[cmosh]

Does anyone have any experience or opinions about the Genesis Automatic Bromine Generator?  It is developed/sold by Pioneer H20 Technologies in Colorado.  Other than their website I can't seem to find any information let alone third party reviews.

Thanks.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

There's a rather long discussion on it here;

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/2347920_config.pl?frames;read=78230

[Chas]

All of these systems are basically two major parts: a power supply which converts household power into DC current with some method of varying the voltage, and then the "cell" which puts the curent into the water to change salt into your sanitizer.

Drawback: You will have to maintain/replace the cell at some point. These have been around decades - they are trying to make better electrodes, and that is a tough thing. After all, you are putting metal into salt water, and then juicing it up to actually make the enviornment around it even MORE harsh as it 'cracks' the potassium chloride (salt) into chlorine or bromine and caustic soda.

Potential pitfall: you are connecting a power supply to metal objects, and then putting those metal objects into the same water you are soaking in - while increasing the conductivity of the water by adding salt. So far I have never heard of an incident, but I can't understand why.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Potential pitfall: you are connecting a power supply to metal objects, and then putting those metal objects into the same water you are soaking in - while increasing the conductivity of the water by adding salt. So far I have never heard of an incident, but I can't understand why.

 

Isn't the voltage so low that it couldn't possibly cause a problem?

These type of systems have been used in swimming pools for around 20 years, sucessfully. The problem with spas, as I understand it, is that with suchk a small volume of water it's difficult to control the amount of sanitizer being created.

[Chas]

Isn't the voltage so low that it couldn't possibly cause a problem?

Yes, you are correct - assuming that everything works as it is supposed to.  If a wire gets crossed, all bets are off.

I have seen several of these with the line voltage going into the box - it could happen that a wire melts down and ties the output to the line input.

I have also seen new versions with a wall adapter plugged right into the recepticle: no high voltage ever enters the unit at all. Seems much less likely to ever have a problem.

Now, I know that most spas also have a high-voltage heating element in contact or close proximity to the water. Those units are ETL or UL listed and have been tested as a whole unit to keep them safe. GFI protection, grounding and bonding, current collectors - it's all there and tested.

These units are almost always added on after the fact.

[Micah]

Yes, you are correct - assuming that everything works as it is supposed to.  If a wire gets crossed, all bets are off.

I have seen several of these with the line voltage going into the box - it could happen that a wire melts down and ties the output to the line input.

I have also seen new versions with a wall adapter plugged right into the recepticle: no high voltage ever enters the unit at all. Seems much less likely to ever have a problem.

Now, I know that most spas also have a high-voltage heating element in contact or close proximity to the water. Those units are ETL or UL listed and have been tested as a whole unit to keep them safe. GFI protection, grounding and bonding, current collectors - it's all there and tested.

These units are almost always added on after the fact.

Chas,
Have you ever heard of this happening or are you just playing on everyone fears?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Chas,
Have you ever heard of this happening or are you just playing on everyone fears?

Thank you Micah...... Chas, I don't mean to be confrontational, but what the #### are you talking about?

If the transformer isnt in the wall plug, it's the first thing the power goes to inside the unit. Ionizers work almost exactly the same way. In fact, the Genesis is a modified version of their ionizer, just with graphite probes rather than copper. I guess I could imagine that with a large enough power surge, the entire transformer could arc and short out sending high voltage to the cell............ but, the 24 guage wire running to the cell I would think would almost instantly melt away.... leaving nothing to transmit electricity to the water... ..... Of course, with that kind of power surge the whole spa will be fried, and your TV, computer, sterio etc......and where's the GFCI durring all of this (less likely to be one if pluged into an outlet, rather than wired into a spa pack)?

[Chas]

Chas,
Have you ever heard of this happening or are you just playing on everyone fears?

As I clearly stated, " So far I have never heard of an incident, but I can't understand why. "

Didn't mean to play on anyone's fears, other than my own. I'm saying that I have NOT heard of any incidents.

I'm a safety freak. Can't help it people sue people these days. Sorry, didn't mean to get folks riled.

Are these units UL/ ETL listed?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

http://www.pioneerh2o.com/

ETL and CSA

The GENESIS Device is
Tested and Listed to:
ANSI/UL - Std. 1081 5th e.
CAN/CSA Std. C22.2 No .0

There's an owners manual here'

http://www.spapurification.com/suppport_docs/user_manual_web.doc

[Chas]

Doc, you obviously know these things better than I do. If you trust them, then fine. Obviously the ETL does - and that carries a lot of weight with me too.

You can teach an old dog new tricks. Perhaps I'll take another look at them.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Actually, their bromine gernators, I know little about.. But I know the company well and  I've been carrying their ionizers for years. All of our complete hot tub systems come with one.

[Darrell]

I,ve had one for a year and thought trial and error have learned a few things.
The electrode must be installed correct or it will give you black dust  
Make sure your water is balanced (you must have 0 phosphates) before adding the salts
The system will cause your PH to be a little high around 7.9  
Use only 98% pure bromine salts, pool salts will not work (believe me I tried it)

[J.C.McGILLICUDDY]

cmosh - I've had the genesis for 2 years and i love it .it will push your ph up to 7.9-8.0.I keep my ta down at 80-90 ppm to counter act the high ph.there has been some serious issues with the electrode breaking down creating black dust but i havn't had any problems with that .their are two types of electrodes one is made just for Cal Spa and is doped with copper,the other is not.the one that was made for Cal Spa was the one that had the most serious issue with electrode breakdown that  i'm  aware of.
I plan on posting a article on the system at dr. spa q&a forum as soon as i can get my wife to type it for me ,as i am a single digit typer. i'll let you know when i do

                    J.C. McGILLICUDDY