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Author Topic: opinions on inground spa working with pool.....  (Read 8519 times)

plsbcheap

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opinions on inground spa working with pool.....
« on: April 28, 2006, 09:10:05 am »
Most of the pool contractors I have talked to and seen their work are using electronic Jandy valves to switch the heat and filtration from pools to spas.  I think the heater is a Pentair and has about 400K BTU's.  The electronic control (on your wall and in a remote) allow you to select spa heat only.  This changes the valve and the spa heats up but does NOT spill into the pool when you are using it as a hottub.  Your pool stays the same temp and the tub gets to 104 or whatever.  When it cools down you can then cause it to "spill over" into the pool with a nice waterfall effect and the water in the spa is always filtered through the same process as the pool.  
I like this automation idea so I don't have to keep up with two separate systems.  I am paying big bucks for the pool to be heated and electronically controlled so I'd like to take advantage of the automation for the spa as well.  
HOWEVER I want the "therapeutic spa" action and most of the "spill over" spa tubs appear very simple with only 6 jets or so.

So help here... I didn't know if some of the tub manufactures that are on this forum (i.e. Hot Springs, SunDance, more) have a "inground" application.

Bottom line the more research I do the more I "think" it is necessary to find an "inground" tub designed to hook to the pool heater/filter and thus using the electronic valves OR buy a separate spa and NOT hook them together.  I'm not worried about dumping the hot water in the pool as you don't usually run the spill over with the heat running on the pool or spa.  What I am hoping for is the ability to run the hottub year round and heat it only when I want to use it but keep the pool filter/tub filter running year round to keep it clean.  The extra jets and "therapeutic action" was what I was hoping to find from some of the manufactures here and get away from the basic tub offered by pool companies.  If you sit in a Gunite hottub, you really just get heated up and enjoy very little therapy.

Post any links to spas that might fit the bill here.  Again, all your comments are very much appreciated.
THANKS!!!
Here are links I found with pictures of tubs from Sunbelt etc.  Any advice on what I am trading off/giving up??? I guess you still have to add addtional pumps to provide the action...
http://royalswimmingpools.com/92_spa_stone.htm
http://
http://www.partypools.com/hottubs/spill-overs/index.htm

http://www.jdspas.com/models/premium_ontario/index.htm
http://www.sunbeltspas.com/Pages/spilloverspa.htm
http://www.poolwarehouse.com/inground-spa.html  The last picture is not a spill over but appears to work off the pool equipment as they show it to be sold with a Hayward pool system.

[size=24] Thoughts, opinions, comments from the experts???  What is the downfall of doing this???[/size]

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opinions on inground spa working with pool.....
« on: April 28, 2006, 09:10:05 am »

Drewski

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Re: opinions on inground spa working with pool....
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2006, 11:30:34 am »
Hi Plsbcheap:

Glad to see your project is coming along and your making some progress with thinking.

UNFORTUNATELY of late, it seems most of the posters with technical know-how on this forum seem to be spending their time on less meaningful subjects, but I guess everyone needs a break now and again.  :-/

I really like the combo pool and spa approach, although I need to tell you that most people I know who have one live in warmer climes with year-round pools.  Efficiency is an issue, even with careful preparation.

If I was doing your project, I'd think about the following. First, if I was going to combine pool and spa filtration, I'd get a high-end, high-volume cartridge filter. The Jandy CL 460 or CL 580 looks like a good choice. Note the high filtration capacity and a work rating of 180 to 225 GPM for both these filters. Needless to say, you need a bigger filter to handle both water sources and, REMEMBER, spas need MORE filtration than pools, especially for suspended organics.  A size up for filtration would be my choice, just so I'm NOT doing filter cleaning every week.  You also need a higher GPM filter if you are planning to use your pool pump as a spa jet pump on "high speed" setting. Your contractor will have a recommendation for this if he has decent experience with shared circuit systems.

I'd also consider using a higher end digitally controlled heater, sized for the pool. Don't worry about it being right for the spa, as long as it's natural gas and has two-setting and switching capacity it should be fine. Sticking with Jandy, the LX model heater looks like a good choice.  Unlike "normal" spas, your spa will remain cooler (maybe pool water temp) until you want to use it. When you get ready to use it, you switch circuits and that big pool heater brings your spa to temp in less than 30 minutes.  

Now, I'll bet that "waterfall effect" comes from circulating the spa WITH the pool. What I mean by this is that when the spa is "off," the pool filtration circuit opens to the spa, causing it to "overfill." Because of the "waterfall," the spa water spills into the pool causing it to return through the pool suction. When the spa is turned "on," the pool filtration cycle cuts out, keeping the spa water in the spa and allowing it to heat.

Ok, so how do we put it together? Here's what I'm thinking. To start with, the pool circuit is suctioned from the pool, filtered, heated, retuned to the spa and then spills over into the pool. The spa remains at pool temperature until used.  When the spa is turned on, actuators switch to a circuit suctioned from the spa, filtered, heated and returned to the spa. If the pool pump has "low" and "high" settings, it's used on "low" for pool circulation and switches to "high" for spa jets. If you want more spa "action," plumb an additional high speed pump on an independent circuit that only turns on when the spa is activated.  This additional circuit would NOT be filtered or heated. Valve actuators and electronic controls do all the work.  Just remember, the "winter" setting for this system needs to cut out pool circulation but still allow the spa to operate. This means draining the above ground pool plumbing, valves, etc.  This approach should result in a shared pool pump, filter and heater and is probably what you’re looking for.

Just remember, I'm NOT a pool/spa contractor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night....

Good luck and hope this helps....

Drewski

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It's a HOT tub... anything else is just a POOL!

RPG

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Re: opinions on inground spa working with pool....
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2006, 11:36:49 am »

A dear little birdie friend of mine once told me that HotSpring had a shortlived and unfruitful foray into the dirty world of inground spas.  It might behoove you to contact the HotSpring Factory and see if perhaps they have any of the leftover inventory available for sale at cost.

I wish you well. ;)

Latte wishes and gummi bear dreams, The Spa Fairy

plsbcheap

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Re: opinions on inground spa working with pool....
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2006, 12:28:50 pm »
Drewski:
You have just articulated exactly what the pool contractor described and how he does it when it builds a spill over spa. I have seen 3 that he has done in the last few months. This seems to be a popular thing right now around Atlanta where we live. However the spa tub/spills over that he has installed are "cheesy" IMHO and I want a larger / nicer action spa in place of the standard 4 person 8 jet models I have seen. This should be larger like a Gunite custom-built spa with better valves/action. The only thing I would add from your description is that he told me about a new pump he is checking into with his manufacture rep that is "intelipump' or something. It will run at variable horsepower and give you all the action needed and pretty much handle the pool, spa and all kinds of added options. I'm sure it is expensive and requires a control system that is "smart" and expensive too. You are a great help.

The Spa Fairy:Thanks and I'll check that lead out too.




Vanguard

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Re: opinions on inground spa working with pool....
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 05:13:10 pm »
Intellipump is from Pentair and they are an incredible pump.  The upfront cost is a bit more than a regular pool pump, but the cost of operation is much lower.

When you use this in conjunction with Pentair's controls, heaters and Intellichlor chlorine generator, you get a great system.  

IMO, I think Pentair is the best out there.  I used to work for Hayward and helped a friend build a pool.  I used Pentair over Hayward even though I could have gotten the Hayward stuff for free.  And that's the truth.

You will save money with the Intellipump.  Go for it!!
The stars at night are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas and my Vanguard!!!

Hot Tub Forum

Re: opinions on inground spa working with pool....
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 05:13:10 pm »

 

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