Cloudy Water

[Snowbird]

J385, Ozonator, Nature2, 2oz Activate after each use.  The water was fine and crystal clear.

I switched from Activate to Spa Depot's Oxy-Spa and the water went cloudy.

Activate active ingredient is Potassium Peroxymonosulfate ....... 32.8%.

Oxy-spa active ingredient is Potassium Peroxymonosulfate ....... 42.8%.

This is the only change I made.  Why would the tub cloud up?  Has anyone else used Oxy-Spa?  What were your results?

Last night I dumped 6 oz Oxy-spa in and it is even cloudier today so I tried another 2 oz.

[tony]

Activate is a buffered non chlorine shock, like Leisure Time Renew (same company).  Oxy-Spa is not, so you should need less product.  Cloudiness many times occurs when bacteria overtakes the sanitizer.  The non chlorine shock is just oxidizing.  The only sanitizing in your spa in the N2 cartridge and whatever ozone can add.  When water goes south on you, I have found it very difficult to bring it back without additional sanitizer.  You may want to add a little dichlor and increase your filter cycles for a bit, per the N2 instructions.  If it doesn't get sparkling clear, add a clarifier to help it along.

I don't believe it is the change in non chlorine shock that has caused the cloudiness, just maybe a coincidence.  I have not had good luck with the system you use.  My water would frequently go cloudy, even when I shocked weekly with dichlor.  

[rick_in_cleveland]

My guess is you need to shock with Dichlor.  Although many dealers promote using MPS alone or with very little dichlor I could never get it to work for me.  With either approach you still need to dichlor shock every 7-10 days

[Snowbird]

I stopped by the dealer today and bought a container of Activate.  He told me to add some clarifier to help the Activate.

I came home and found that the water was starting to get a green tinge.  The tub was put in mid-December and I hadn't changed the Nature2 stick, so I put in a new of those and 3 oz of Sea Klear and tested the water with a Nature2 test strip.  It showed TA slightly low, pH at 7.2 but the mps was non-existent.  I added 6 oz of Activate and ran all pumps for 1 hour and retested.

The water was no longer green and it was less cloudy.  TA and pH were a little lower but the mps was beginning to register.  

I added 4 more oz of Activate and 1/4 cup baking soda to bring up the TA, ran it for about 15 minutes then and shut it down and covered it.

Tomorrow if cloudiness is gone and I will recheck everything and bring the pH back up to 7.5.

If it is still cloudy, I will drain it and start over.  I'm going to ask Spa Depot why this happened.  I could something I did without realizing it or I might have purchased the wrong stuff or the product might be defective.  It would be good to know which it is since I have 5 more bottles of Oxy-Spa.  

[stl-rex]

I'm on Bromine, not nature2.  I have the spa depot stuff also.  I have not noticed an issue with cloudiness.  I do have to watch pH and TA since it is unbuffered.  But Arm and Hammer keeps the TA just fine which of course helps keeps the pH stable.  I think yours is a coincidence.  I notice after shocking with oxy-spa the water smells really "clean" so I think it's working fine.

[Tatooed_Lady]

Snowbird, does the Oxy-spa have an expiration date on it? Is it possible it's old or has become fouled some other way? You might try one of the other containers, just to see if the problem is just the one container.....
(yeah I know, that's a LONNNNNNG shot)
$.02

[Drewski]

Hi Snowbird:

You most likely have a 2 part problem.

First, the green tinged water is a key sign you need to add dichlor. When I used N2 (I don't now), a lower level of dichlor was OK, but I still shocked with dichlor every Saturday.

Second, even with shock, you need to filter out the stuff now suspended in the water. Run the pumps for about 1 HR to get high volume filtration after adding a clarifying agent. Anti-foam also works well in larger amounts (2 caps) for causing stuff to clump and stick in the filters. Wash the filters using a filter treatment spray after running the pumps. You should see the water clear up quickly. If not, it should be clear in about 12 HRS if the circ pump is continually running.

Just a note on N2. An N2 cartridge is ONLY good for 1 tub of water. If you lose (remove then add) more than 1/3 of tub volume, N2 is no longer effective and you are wasting $. This is because the ionization process N2 uses is completed in the first 36 HRS after adding it to the water and the chemical change to the contents of the cartridge means it no longer has the capacity to treat "new" water. Keep this in mind if you go through water.

Good luck!

Drewski

[anne]

Just a note on N2. An N2 cartridge is ONLY good for 1 tub of water. If you lose (remove then add) more than 1/3 of tub volume, N2 is no longer effective and you are wasting $. This is because the ionization process N2 uses is completed in the first 36 HRS after adding it to the water and the chemical change to the contents of the cartridge means it no longer has the capacity to treat "new" water. Keep this in mind if you go through water.

Good luck!

Drewski

 

That is good to know. So new N2 needed with every water change, even if the water doesn't make it 3-4 months.

[Tatooed_Lady]

Drewski, this is good info on the N2, thanks!

[Snowbird]

Well, I woke up this morning and the tub was cloudier than the previous night.  Even after dumping gobs of Oxy-Spa and Actviate in it.

I figure I had 2 choices:  Dump a cup of Clorox in and hope for the best or change the water.  Since I already had a real witch's brew going, I didn't think a cup of Clorox would produce anything I'd want to sit in with my 'nads unprotected.  So I drained it.

I had to work from 10A to 6P so before I left I connected up the hose to the drain, stuck the other end in my basement floor drain and let her rip.  When I got home it was empty but I couldn't do anything until 8P since we wife was sleeping.  She is going to work tonight at 10 for the 1st of 4 midnight shifts.

Anyway I got the Windex and scrubbed the inside, hosed it all down and shop vaced all the water out.  Then I blew the lines out thru the filter intakes with the blowing end of the vac.  All that left was to suck out the rest of the old water and fill it up; so that's what is going on now. Should be filled shortly and ready for soaking in the morning.

Now.. do I go back to the Oxy-Spa or stick with Activate?  Everything was going fine with Activate so I think I will go back to it.  I had just changed the water mid-February and it was perfect untill I used O-S.

[Tatooed_Lady]

my $.02........go with what worked. Can you return the other stuff?

[Bill_Stevenson]

This thread is a study in spa water.  There is a lot of good information including the solution:  When in doubt change the water.  I change mine every 60 days.  

Bill

[hottubdan]

3 things:

Nature2 says if only using MPS to oxidize and water gets cloudy, then add chlorine.  Approved product is dichlor, not bleach which is mostly water and fillers.

When filtering, only use pump 1 on low speed.  High speed on pump 1 has bypass, so not improving filtration.  Pumps 2 and 3 bypass filters totally.

You did not mention cleaning and/or rotating filters.  You need to clean monthly.  Rotating is a good idea.

[Snowbird]

Nature2 says if only using MPS to oxidize and water gets cloudy, then add chlorine.  Approved product is dichlor, not bleach which is mostly water and fillers.

I didn't know that.  Thanks.  The dealer told me to use Clorox, but I will get some dichlor in case it happens again.

When filtering, only use pump 1 on low speed.  High speed on pump 1 has bypass, so not improving filtration.  Pumps 2 and 3 bypass filters totally.

That is correct, but I turn on the other pumps to be sure no water is trapped in the lines that should be getting circulated andf filtered.  As far as I can tell pumps 2 & 3 suck in from those big intakes near the floor and push the water out about half the jets.  No filtering at all.  That is why Jacuzzi sells some spas with fine mesh bags that cover those intakse.  Pine needles and other junk will go right to the pumps.

You did not mention cleaning and/or rotating filters.  You need to clean monthly.  Rotating is a good idea.

I had a spare set of filters cleaned and ready to go.  I swapped them out so there are clean filters in there now.  I was going to do monthly swap outs but our tub is indoors used only by 2 adults who shower before entering.  The filters look unused after a month. We hardly even get a tub ring.

The 385 has a symbol on the control panel to show when it is producing ozone.  After the refill I was checking the settings and it struck me that I had not seen that symbol for quite a while.  If the ozonator failed, it is doubtful the Activate could maintain the tub on its own.  I called the dealer to get edu-ma-cated but the tech was not in and the backup salesman (Norm) left a note for him call me tomorrow.  I would like to know the logic behind the ozonator operation.  When does it run?  What triggers it?  I know it doesn't run when we are runnig the pumps, but how long is the delay once we get out?  I still think I am suffering for operator error, but it does help to eliminate possibilites.

[Snowbird]

I called the dealer and asked for the tech to give me a call.  I told him what was happening and he asked me to remove the side panel and try to hear if the ozonator was buzzing.  It wasn't.

Between his schedule and mine we finally found time for him to come out this morning.  I wasn't in any big hurry because it's a hot tub, not a dialysis machine or the 3 Mile Island nuclear power plant cooling system.  

He did a few tests and sure enough the ozonator has not been working.  I was trying to maintain a tub with just Nature2 and 2 oz of Activate.  That is why the water had to be changed every 4 or 5 weeks.  He put in a new ozonator and it is working fine.  

Not to rekindle an old argument, but I was not charged any fees whatsoever even though it is a 54 mile round trip from the store.

We had the Jacuzzi repair people in California on the phone for a while and I learned a few things.

Just because there are bubbles coming from the outlet doesn't mean the ozonator is producing ozone.  This reinforces what has been said before on this forum; there is a venturi type of set up that will suck air into the line even if ozone isn't being produced.

The ozonator is supposed to work anytime the low voltage 24 hour circ pump is operating.  For those of you from Rio Linda that is all day, everyday.  However, when any of the 3 jet pumps are working the ozonator will shut off and not come back on until 5 minutes after the last pump was shut off.

According to the Jacuzzi guy, the ozone indicator on the panel should be on anytime the ozonator is working.

Thanks to all of you for all your advice.