emerald or sundance?

[Chris_H]

Emerald's warranty is 5 years on the jets and cabinet.  The only cabinet warranty for Sundance, according to their website is that it will be "free from defects in workmanship or material at the time of delivery.

Why is the cabinet or jets not on the warranty?  Please show me somewhere that it is included.  I will believe it when it is seen.  I did not notice any exclusions either.  Every warranty has exclusions.  Here is the site I was looking at:  

http://emeraldspa.com/information_and_support/warranty.html

I have given the Emerald cabinets a good hit on the side on 2005 models.  Sorry, but I don’t see it holding that hot air inside or together or 10 years.

Emerald's warranty is 5 years on the jets and cabinet.  The only cabinet warranty for Sundance, according to their website is that it will be "free from defects in workmanship or material at the time of delivery.

You must be reading the wrong warranty on the Sundance because it clearly states “free from material defects” for two years.  Here is the site:  

http://sundancespas.com/Innovation/800Warranty.pdf

With Sundance's filtration system, you better keep your filters clean and hope nothing clogs them or you might restrict the waterflow to the pumps.  But that has been beaten to death...

I will take restriction on flow over replacing a motor or heater.  Also, with Sundance’s new filtration on the 880 series restriction does not happen as often as it once did if at all.

Both have the same plumbing and equipment warranty. But Sundance only has a 10 year shell warranty, Emerald has a 25 year non prorated warranty.

And this really matters?  Seriously, 25 years or 10 years on the shell.  No big deal.  It is the spa surface that matters.  Both are 7 years.

In regards to the "unconditional" warranty on the heater.  The only thing I read is that Sundance's limited warranty will be void if they determine that the spa has been neglected or abused, including the failure to maintain proper water chemistry.  That sounds like a conditional warranty to me !!!  If they use a "Titanium heater that is impervious to corrosion", why is there a conditional warranty?

From Sundance’s website:  “The titanium coil protects the Smart Heater from corrosion or failure, and carries an unconditional 5-year warranty.”  Obviously, the heater is not conditional.

http://sundancespas.com/Innovation/Energy.html

And rolling out sprayed on fiberglass by hand to make sure the shell is solid with no air pockets is NOT good for quality control??  I think Emerald's shell warranty speaks for itself.

It is not good for quality control because it can make for inconsistency in production.  Inconsistency is bad for production of anything.  Think about manufacturing Tylenol.  If Tylenol is inconsistent by .0001% it fails.  Think about that.

Shall I go on?

[hymbaw]

Hamburger or Filet Mignon?

I'm trying to decide what to have for dinner tonight. There are two restaurants here in town, one has Filet the other Hamburger. The Filet is more $$ and seems to come with less while the Hamburger guy said I could have a bun and the condiments of my choice FREE!! Beef is beef and they both guarantee my satisfaction so they must be the same, right?

Please help, I'm hungry!

[Tatooed_Lady]

Spam.......definitely the Spam. With Velveeta.  

[Veeper]

Sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes, so I can respond to each question, so I did it this way....

Chris H:  Why is the cabinet or jets not on the warranty? Please show me somewhere that it is included. I will believe it when it is seen. I did not notice any exclusions either. Every warranty has exclusions. Here is the site I was looking at:
http://emeraldspa.com/information_and_support/warranty.html

I have given the Emerald cabinets a good hit on the side on 2005 models. Sorry, but I don’t see it holding that hot air inside or together or 10 years.


Veeper:  Well, that's what you say you did. And again everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I guess proof is in the pudding. Funny, Sundance uses a similar cabinet structure and identical synthetic cabinet as Emerald, but when you put your knee up to the corner of the Sundance cabinet why does it bow and Emerald's doesn't?


Chris H: You must be reading the wrong warranty on the Sundance because it clearly states “free from material defects” for two years. Here is the site:

http://sundancespas.com/Innovation/800Warranty.pdf

Veeper:  You are correct, I was mistaken. Sundance's is 2 years. Emerald's is 5 years.


Chris H:  I will take restriction on flow over replacing a motor or heater. Also, with Sundance’s new filtration on the 880 series restriction does not happen as often as it once did if at all.

Veeper:  Ummmm, if there is a restriction of water to the pumps for a period of time, they burn up don't they? So you'd have to replace the motors. And that's what you'd take?


Chris H:  And this really matters? Seriously, 25 years or 10 years on the shell. No big deal. It is the spa surface that matters. Both are 7 years.

Veeper:  I believe it only matters to those purchasing or owning spas. What happens if a crack develops in the surface at year 8. Does Sundance still guarantee that no water will get through the shell into the cabinet area? Emerald does. What about 25 years from now? Emerald does.

Chris H:  From Sundance’s website: “The titanium coil protects the Smart Heater from corrosion or failure, and carries an unconditional 5-year warranty.” Obviously, the heater is not conditional.

http://sundancespas.com/Innovation/Energy.html


Veeper:  Then why is there an exclusion to it?
http://sundancespas.com/Innovation/800Warranty.pdf

Chris H:  It is not good for quality control because it can make for inconsistency in production. Inconsistency is bad for production of anything. Think about manufacturing Tylenol. If Tylenol is inconsistent by .0001% it fails. Think about that.

Veeper:  I do. But tylenol is made by machines that make the product....Kinda how Sundance does it, right?
Well, I'd rather have a person building and inspecting the shell to see if it is to specifications than a robot that doesn't even know that it has made a good or bad shell.  

Chris H:  Shall I go on?
Veeper:  Let's call it a day.

[Tatooed_Lady]

people suck. I want a mid-week tub.

[galen]

Its clear Veeper that you think a Sundance is not the tub yours is.  But you clearly don't know the operation of a Sundance. If the filter would get clogged which is very unlikely, the controller will shut down the unit. Thus no damage to anything. If you want to own your spa for 25 years, then you are living in a dream world. I buy caddys and pay a hell of a lot more for them and don't own them for 25 years. Get real, you sound like some kid,"my dad can beat up your dad".

[Brewman]

 There must be something wrong with Emerald if "He who's name is forever stricken from the sacred scrolls" has at least a grudging respect for them.   At least he did last time I noticed.  That might have changed by now.  

[SerjicalStrike]

What is the benefit of pressure side filtration?

What is the size of the heater on the Emerald?  4kW, 5.5kW, or 6kW?

"Veeper:  Ummmm, if there is a restriction of water to the pumps for a period of time, they burn up don't they? So you'd have to replace the motors. And that's what you'd take? "

There are no restrictions on the main motors in the 880 series.   There is only a filter for the circulation pump.  

[hymbaw]

Tell 'em, Serj!!

[Chris_H]

I just received the complete warranty from Emerald with page two that is not on the website.  I can PDF and send to anyone that wishes to receive a copy.  My email is chrish484@hotmail.com

The cabinet only comes with a part warranty and not a labor warranty.

The pump seals are not warranted for 5 years.  It appears to me they only have a 2-year warranty and do not have a labor warranty.  

O-rings and the stainless steel escutcheons on the jets are not covered at all.

There is a sentence in the warranty that states “additional labor required to complete the warranted repair”?  Never read that before on a any spa.  That means the dealer can charge additional labor to the consumer.

I’m calling it a day.

[gbw]

interesting comments all around.  wet tested the emerald m570 last night at local dealer (maker of regionally-known pool tables here in town). really liked the two big power jets, but the rest were average.  temp set at 104, and after testing felt very weak.  may take a break for a while, but still want to test the sundance altamar.  might try the coleman, too.  thanks to all for comments.