Spa Frog- King Technologies-REFILL

[Spatech_tuo]

 Any sanitizer is going to be a "chemical bath" isn't it?

Nah, people who've tried both almost always prefer chlorine over bromine because they know that they sanitize with chlroine but when they go to use it the next time the sanitizer level has dropped so they're not sitting in a chemical soup like they would in a bromine spa.

[NE-Phil]

...I am surprised that other bromine manufacturers/distriburters haven't come out with thier own compatatble, refillable cartriidge.  I think it's only a matter of time when the free market and competition resolves this.  

Hey Doc!
Do you know of anyone making refillable cartridges that can be used in a spa frog system? Get in on your site and I'll buy some!
Anybody know of anyone in the plastics industry who's looking for new products? They can charge 5 times what's it's actually worth and it will pay for itself after a year!

[Vinny]

Do any of you work for a BIG corporation?

It's all about MONEY and how much of it these companies can suck out of people. That's why you got Frogs, Baqua, disposable filters, ...

If people on the Frog System wrote letters to the spa company and KT and told them their never using their product and stop using it, things will change quickly. Big companies don't want to waste money on something their not making money on.

drprwnap, KT will probably make it impossible to open those Frogs in the future or make them a different size so standard bromine tablets won't work because it's affecting their bottom line.

Actually, like the shrinking size of food in the supermarket, it'll probably be getting smaller and smaller for "the good of your spa"! You'll be able to use one container a week for ease of use; you don't have to think about it - every _____ (fill in the blank) just pop a new one in!

It sounds like companies are looking for ways to lock the customers in to guarantee money coming in.

[Tatooed_Lady]

Corporate has always sucked, in my experience. They're so busy in meetings, seeing the "big picture", etc...that they can easily overlook some of the smaller things that make a BIG difference...
Remember Trak Auto? I worked for them...they wouldn't allow us to put the small, high ticket items behind the counter and leave an empty display package out on the floor, even though we had a store in a high crime area. They (corporate) figured it was better to have the stuff stolen than to mess with what the floor plan was supposed to be.....

[MarKee]

Most people I talk to who have used both almost always prefer Bromine over Chlorine.  Chlorine off gasses at 98 degrees.  The avg. hot tub is 102 deg. so when you use chlorine, you definitely smell it.  Bromine off gasses higher, that's not to say you won't ever smell it, but if used in ideal amounts you will have very limited chemical odor.  When people are allergic to chlorine, bromine is usually an alternative that will do better on their skin.

[ssbraun]

 The avg. hot tub is 102 deg. so when you use chlorine, you definitely smell it.  

Disagree.  I usually have about .5 - 1 ppm chlorine when I use my tub and I definitely can NOT smell it. The water actually smells almost sweet with a little bit of an ozone smell.  Guests often comment on the pleasant smell.  When I dose the tub after use, I can smell the dichlor off-gas, but this is gone the next time I use it.  Strong chlorine odour is often caused by chloramines.

Steve

[spadude134]

ok here is what all you "consumers" need to realize....it is the Retailer's that set the price...not King Technologies.... I am a pool and spa retailer and we guaruntee the lowest price.....don't go after King...go after your local retailer

[Snyper]

I am a pool and spa retailer and we guaruntee the lowest price

And what would that price be? I ask, because my dealer sells the Spa Frog Bromine for $7.99 each.


Edited to correct spelling

[MarKee]

Snyper:  Your dealer has a fabulous price on those cartridges.  At the factory MQ stores in Oregon those cartridges are $11.50 each.

[tony]

Most people I talk to who have used both almost always prefer Bromine over Chlorine.  Chlorine off gasses at 98 degrees.  The avg. hot tub is 102 deg. so when you use chlorine, you definitely smell it.  Bromine off gasses higher, that's not to say you won't ever smell it, but if used in ideal amounts you will have very limited chemical odor.  When people are allergic to chlorine, bromine is usually an alternative that will do better on their skin.

I also disagree, especially regarding the off gassing.  Show me something reputable that validates your claim that chlorine off gasses at 98 degrees.  The only thing I can find is extremely high chlorine levels under certain circumstances may result in chlorine gas at the water surface.  Now I know chlorine produces chloromines and when shocking they off gas, but that also happens in pools where the temp in much lower and is the result of a chemical reaction you are initiating.  From what I know, there should be no smell of chlorine unless you have chloromines or very high levels of chlorine at which time you are oxidizing because you have reached breakpoint oxidation level.  One of the disadvantages of bromine is the bromine odor that you cannot get it off you.  From what I see, many go from bromine to chlorine, few from chlorine to bromine in today's modern world.

[cappykat]

So all you do is add dichlor after bathing...and how do you determine the amount?  We haven't used our tub in over a week and our usage isn't heavy, so if you're not using everyday how would you create a routine?

[tony]

So all you do is add dichlor after bathing...and how do you determine the amount?  We haven't used our tub in over a week and our usage isn't heavy, so if you're not using everyday how would you create a routine?

I also use a Nature2 cartridge and ozone.  At new water fill, I balance and then add 1 tblspn dichlor.  This would bring my 485 gallon spa to 3-5 ppm free chlorine.  That level will drop to near zero in a couple of days but is low enough to use the spa at anytime.

After use, add enough dichlor to bring your free chlorine level to 2+ ppm.  Every tub is different and number of bathers will affect this, but for most people with average use, one to two tsp is enough.  After you test the first few times, you will get a good idea of your tubs chlorine demand and know how much to add.  Run all your jets for about five minutes and close the cover.  The next time you soak, the free chlorine level will have dropped, proboably close to zero, so you are soaking in chem free water.  Your N2 cartridge and ozone maintain while chlorine levels are low.  When you get back in you introduce new bacteria, etc.  You finish and add chlorine and sanitize all over again.  In between time, such as the week you haven't used it, there is no large amount of bacteria, etc being brought into the water, so the N2 and ozone can keep up...for the most part.  My water will last a week neglected, but I would suggest adding a dichlor dose mid week.  Shock weekly or as needed with either MPS or dichlor.  I use a combination of both.  Because I tend to use a minimal amount of dichlor after use, I like to bring my free chlorine level to 3-5 ppm once per week.  That is low enough to use the spa, but high enough to give it a good cleanse.  I shock with MPS when I have any combined chlorine.  That is generally every other week.  I shock with MPS over dichlor because the shock level of chlorine means a day or two without using the spa.

Of course balance the water weekly and your all done.  There are two good routines on Doc's forum in the FAQ section...Vermonters dichlor dosing and Northman's routine.  They go into good detail and is worth reading.

[NE-Phil]

Snyper:  Your dealer has a fabulous price on those cartridges.  At the factory MQ stores in Oregon those cartridges are $11.50 each.

$7.99 vs. $11.50. Markee, you're missing the point. It's still way cheaper to simply refill them at a cost of 8 bromine tablets each refill. That's it.

It goes back to Corporate Greed.  King Technology has changed the cartridge so they cannot be taken apart to be made reuseable. Why? It cuts into their profits. Period.
Nor do they care about the environment. I can hear them now, "So what if they have to throw some more plastic away every time they replace the cartridge?"
In fact, I can't even throw it in my area's curbside recycling - they don't want it either. Every one of those cartridges will get buried in a landfill.

I'm hoping someone here will find an alternative canister that will work. Maybe kludge something together using a Pringle's can! Just kidding. I've been thinking about it but haven't yet come up with anything. We have a lot of smart, resourceful people on this site. Hopefully, one of us will think of an alternative, reuseable canister.

Then again, there are always floaters!

Phil

[drewstar]

So all you do is add dichlor after bathing...and how do you determine the amount?  We haven't used our tub in over a week and our usage isn't heavy, so if you're not using everyday how would you create a routine?

It's based on tub size  (amount of water,)  how many people used the tub and for how long.

The goal is to get the CL up to  2-3 ppm  after sanitizing.  

I have a 350 gal tub with a 24 hr ozinator.   On average, I use 1/2 teaspoon of dichlor per person who used the tub, run the  pumps for 10 minutes and close it up for the night.     No problems.  

[galen]

Very good info Tony. This is simply whatever works best for you. I had a pool ten years ago that had an inline chlorinator. Had trouble with the levels. I would just put those tablets in and turn it down so as to maintain chlorine. And then shocked once a week. I went with yours and Drewstar's recomendation of Dichlor.  Its just much more forgiving.  I think that if you get use to bromine, its ok. My son likes it in his tub. He came over last night to break in the new tub. He said he would watch how easy I have it. I think the Sundance models have a bromine compartment on the gate of the filter box for bromine tablets. At least mine does.