Wet test weekend and Bullfrog Spas

[tanstaafl2]

The little women (5'3") and I (6'0") finished a weekend of wet testing, managing to test Vita/Reflections, Hot Springs/Tiger River, Sundance, Jacuzzi and Bullfrog this weekend.  Didn't quite make it to Caldera or Artisian before they closed so perhaps will try to catch them this week sometime.  Several are not all that convenient to my location that I might otherwise try like Marquis, Coleman and Dimension One.

Thought we might want a four corner open seat type of arrangement but found that several with loungers had appeal as well thanks to wet testing them.

Oddly enough didn't really care much for the Jacuzzi 385 and the 375/365 weren't wet so can't say much about those.

The interesting shaped Allure Vita spa was one that had some appeal.

Also liked the Sundance but they seemed to really like them as well as the Optima/Cameo were pushing 10K if I recall correctly and they didn't have any '05s they were looking to move at a discount and everything on the floor had a stereo system which I really wasn't that interested in. Oh well...

Best price seemed to be on an '05 Envoy, which we also liked for about $8200 with steps, lifter, delivery, etc included even if it did have the odd lack of headrests for several main seats, a minor thing to be sure but strange all the same compared to the competition.

The Bullfrog was about $8900 for a floor model, also with steps, lifter and delivery. Presumably also an '05 model.

Not really sure if either of these prices are in a reasonable range for our area here in Atlanta but that is what we have to work with at the moment!

Also it seems like we had heard a fair amount that was negative about Bullfrog so we were prepared not to like it but found that we did like the 552 dual lounger and in particular a couple of very good jet paks. Doesn't seem like I have seen that much about Bullfrog here (at least can't find much with the search function) either on the forum or the reviews so curious if there is any opinions on them out there. Thanks!

[Spatech_tuo]

Also it seems like we had heard a fair amount that was negative about Bullfrog so we were prepared not to like it but found that we did like the 552 dual lounger and in particular a couple of very good jet paks. Doesn't seem like I have seen that much about Bullfrog here (at least can't find much with the search function) either on the forum or the reviews so curious if there is any opinions on them out there. Thanks!

I'm not sold on the whole jet pack idea but take that opinion and all others you may have seen, set them aside and use the wet test in this case. By all means you REALLY should wet test this spa if you're considering it for a couple simple reasons. Loungers are a funny thing as 1) not everyone fits in them well or cares for them and 2) you do not want to get a double lounger and find you're not too thrilled with the two lounges which will take up more than half the space in the spa.

[spahopeful]

What were your reasons for not liking the Jacuzzi 385?

[tanstaafl2]

My girlfriend likes foot massage while in a lounger, something the bullfrog did well but the 385 did not. Also when in the front left seat we both had a hard time staying in the seat at full pressure, and I liked strong pressure, because there was nothing to put your feet against to hold you in place.  I didn't really care as much for the lounger in general compared to others, including both the envoy and the bullfrog 552

[tanstaafl2]

I'm not sold on the whole jet pack idea but take that opinion and all others you may have seen, set them aside and use the wet test in this case. By all means you REALLY should wet test this spa if you're considering it for a couple simple reasons. Loungers are a funny thing as 1) not everyone fits in them well or cares for them and 2) you do not want to get a double lounger and find you're not too thrilled with the two lounges which will take up more than half the space in the spa.

We probably spent the most time in the bullfrog because we wanted to be sure we were comfortable with it. As I noted earlier when we started out we thought a non lounger might be the way to go. I was a little surprised but I did find the 552 quite nice and liked the variety the jet packs offered. Since most of the time it will likely be the two of us there was enough room even if we were both in the chairs and not in the loungers. I agree that the double lounger may not be ideal when you have another couple visiting but we think we can make it work. But we may give it another test before we decide, just to be sure.

Would love to have something big like the Sundance Maxxus or Vita Rendezvous but those are just more spa than I need. Or want to pay for.

[RatedRsuperstar]

Spatech T.U.O. why aren't you sold on the jetpack idea.  I also was looking at Bullfrog.  It kind of made sense to me but you know more about spas then I do.  
Tanstaafl2 The 552 for 8900 was about 300 more than what I was given (New England).  Mine was about 86 and change and that was to order a new one.  I would ask about the 05 from what my salesman told me (if I get it all right) They just added a circ pump which is alot better i guess.

[tanstaafl2]

Tanstaafl2 The 552 for 8200 was about 400 cheaper than what I got in (New England).  Mine was about 86 and change

Actually it was the HS envoy that was 8200. The Bullfrog 552 was 8900 with ozonator but apparently doesn't have a continuous circulation pump. Circulation apparently occurs once per hour automatically. Or you have to pay another ~$300 for a continuous pump. That was another thing I wasn't sure about with the Bullfrog. Far as I can tell the envoy has a 24 hr circulating pump.

[wmccall]

Bullfrog has been a topic of discussion many times, but a very small minority have wet tested one.  I'm sure many will find your post helpful.

I don't think I'd be chaning paks very often, but customizing to suit your needs does seem appealing.  My spa has replacable/movable jets and after a couple of months I had all the jets where I wanted and my dealer actually swapped out a couple with some jets from COAST that I liked.

[Spatech_tuo]

Spatech T.U.O. why aren't you sold on the jetpack idea.  I also was looking at Bullfrog.  It kind of made sense to me but you know more about spas then I do.  

Ask how much replacement packs cost. I don't think people will be replacing the packs that come with the spa originally as it's too cost prohibitive (and for what gain?). They make it seem like this gains you the advantage of repalcing old jet bodies to make the spa like new again but the reality is people don't replace their older spas because the jet bodies need repalcing because they don't so I see no gain. My spa is 6½ yrs old and there is zero need to replace any jet bodies (the jets themselves can be popped out and replaced like all jets if needed though that isn't needed either). It's a neat sales idea that looks good in the showroom  but I see no real post-purchase advantage to it. I'm not saying the whole jetpack idea is a negative (there is added cost of course but that's pretty obvious), I just don't see the advantage once you get past the Marketing mumbo jumbo. BTW, it's just my opinion so don't take it as anything more than that.

[tanstaafl2]

Not sure I would change jet packs often either but they do give you the option of replacing one or more after purchase if you find you don't like it intially. I think new jet packs are about $200 but not 100% sure.

And I do kind of like the notion of designing my own layout to some degree rather than just going with what comes in the spa.

And I do like the notion that much of the heat in water pipes is in the spa with you rather than deep in the foam, although that may not be that big a deal in practice and that with fewer holes in the shell there would potentially be less chance of leaks developing. With more modern shell technology perhaps that is not a big issue.

Also they have made at least one new jet pack recently that prior owners might want to add now (One with a shoulder waterfall jet). Could even have a couple more than you have slots for and replace them during the same soak for a different kind of massage in your favorite seat. It is very easy to do, I changed several while at the dealer just to be sure it was no big deal.

Not saying I would necessarily mind you, but you could!  

Obviously also a way for the manufacturer to potentially sell a few more accessories.

They do also have a pipe on each jet pack that is open to the area behind the jet pack to presumably address the circulation and alleged "smell" issues behind the jet pack. Seems if you keep it reasonably clean it would not become a problem but no way to know until you live with one for awhile I suppose.

[RatedRsuperstar]

I called my dealer to get some more info.  the circ pump can be programmed to run 24 hours if you liked.  Jet packs run from $300-$600.  
The way my salesperson explained it was say right now I want to focus my jets on the neck area, but 3 years from now I hurt my lower back now I can by a new pack and work on that area.  Other tubs can change the jet setup but they can't change the location, was how it was explained to me, let me know if I have been mis-informed please.

[JJ]

Just a comment about something you might want to keep in mind while wet testing...  Buy a bigger tub than you think you will need (voice of experience).  Even if the tub has four seats, if you don't have at least 450-500 gallons of water in it, it's going to overflow when you have company.

And sometimes, even when it's the two of you,  you just need more room, because you won't neccessarily be sitting in the seats.  This is not something you are likely to fully realize while wet testing in the store.

[greenhut]

OK, I hate to promote just my own choice, but since you have tried many others, and you mentioned your gf liking a foot massage while in the lounger... You really should wet test the Caldera Geneva. The lounger has an awesome foot massage. They had one wet at Rec Warehouse a few months ago, so I imagine they still do.

We were in the same boat with wanting to try a Marquis, but bummed about the distance from the dealer and ultimately decided not to wet test.

thread on our decision:
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1132890275;start=6

[hotubinn]

And I do like the notion that much of the heat in water pipes is in the spa with you rather than deep in the foam, although that may not be that big a deal in practice and that with fewer holes in the shell there would potentially be less chance of leaks developing. With more modern shell technology perhaps that is not a big issue.

The majority of spas out there will be similar in efficiency.  Most of the time leaks do not occur where jets are inserted in the tub.  In my experience, most leaks are from glue fittings, at jets, manifolds etc...  Trust me, these leaks are not easy to access and are expensive to fix, and they can literally come from anywhere!  This is the biggest advantage that I can see with the Bullfrog.  No diverter valves is another nice feature, diverters are again a big source of problems.  

Just two cents from a guy that has repaired 5-6 leaks a week for the last two months!!

[tanstaafl2]

OK, I hate to promote just my own choice, but since you have tried many others, and you mentioned your gf liking a foot massage while in the lounger... You really should wet test the Caldera Geneva. The lounger has an awesome foot massage. They had one wet at Rec Warehouse a few months ago, so I imagine they still do.

thread on our decision:
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1132890275;start=6

We do indeed plan to wet test Caldera, hopefully this week, before making a final decision. Enjoyed reading your very thorough thread. Still leaning towards the bullfrog 552 over the HS Envoy but the Caldera could still change our minds!