Arctic Summit vs. Caldera Moorea/Tahitian

[anne]

Any Arctic or Caldera owners out there with good or bad comments about their spas? We have looked at, and will wet test tomorrow, the above spas. I know that a lot of it will come down to what we feel, but just wanted to get opinions.

The arctic model (Summit) is either the "legend" or "ultra" level (can't remember- will clarify tomorrow) and retails at $12,500. Floor model (2005) going for $7500. The Caldera Moorea is a 2006, and I think would end up being about the same price. If the Arctic feels good, it would be hard for me to pass up such a "deal"......if it is really a deal? I went into this wanting to spend $5000-6000, but have not seen anything all that comforable or appealing for less than $6000.

One last note: I really liked the Caldera dealer, and their store has been there for 20 years. The Arctic dealer mostly had pool tables, not spas, and was a fairly new business, but seemed knowledgeable. Decisions, decisions.....

[J._McD]

Anne, please don't make your decision based on what you presume to be a "DEAL".  If the bottom line on the spa is $7,500 then it is a $7,500 Hot tub in spite of the pshycologial $12,500 IMPRESSION that is given before the "deal" is revealed.
Buy the one that suits you best for what you want to spend.  What they say it is worth dosen't seem to be what they are willing to hold out for, but I am sure they want you to make a decision.  All of us would like to sell you a Hot Tub, but you can only buy one, let it be the ONE that you want for what your willing to part with.

They are both good choices, because they both make HOT WATER.

[Tman122]

I can't add anything to that except. Buy the tub that fits your backside better and the one that has the dealer you prefer. A percieved deal, especialy on an overpriced brand to begin with may not be such a good deal, IMO.

[Duffman]

A percieved deal, especialy on an overpriced brand to begin with may not be such a good deal, IMO.

I have to agree with the above statement on Arctic spas only with respect to the sticker shock factor. I truly believe that anyone who would pay their MSRP is definitly overpaying. High markups and lots of "sales" is a tactic used in so many markets (diamonds, cars, home theater, etc...) and hot tubs are no exception. Arctic dealers just seem to take it much further then most others. Why? Because it works and nearly worked on me  

Arctic was one of the first brands I looked into, and it was just before I started my wet test report (http://www.members.cox.net/duffman471/Spa_Wet_Testing_Analysis.htm). I did some serious haggling without even sitting in the spa and was able to get the price from well over 10k down to a price just under $9000 for a Summit Ultra. The funny thing is that like you, I initially felt inclined to buy it since it seemed I was getting such a great deal.  Of course I later learned that the "deal" was just average when compared to most competing brands.

Despite what seems to be a consistent sales tactic encouraged by the manufacturer, I thought the Manassas Virginia dealer I dealt with (Dave) was great. In the end though, it was my discomfort with the highly sculpted shell that had me looking elsewhere. Of course, if you are comfortable in their spas then I would give Arctic serious consideration. Just remember, Arctic dealers will come way down in price from their "MSRP." You just may need to work at it for a bit to get the price in the $8-9k range.

With the exception of some so called "elite" spa manufactures, most major brands seem to have a price point around $8-9k for their top end spas. Arctic may want to see themselves in that "elite" category but I don't agree. My opinion is that they make a very good quality spa and have some great features, but I do not think they are any better then the competing brands that top out in the 8-9k range.

Knowing this, I agree with previous comments that you should absolutely go with comfort, key desired features, and a good dealer over any perceived sale price. I can't tell you how thankful I am that I didn't just put my money down without wet testing or looking into other spas first.

Good luck

[bosco0633]

I own an arctic tundra.  I originally purchased the sumit, but opted for a deeper tub.  The sumit, in my opinion is the most comfortable tub that arctic sells.  I absolutely loved it when i tried it, 4 times.  

I would first ask if your price is canadian or US dollars.  Either way, I would suggest that the price you listed is about the best that I ever saw.  If you are in Ontario, let me know where, and I have a friend that will go a buy it if you change your mind.  He loves that tub, but the price tag got to him as well.

I love the arctic brand, however, one flaw that bothers me is the jets.  They do not lock into place, so they have a tendency of turning randomly to the off position.  This has been corrected for 2006, and I believe that warranty may infact cover this.  

The bottom line, like everyone else says, is that you need to wet test and purchase on comfort and dealer reputation.  I would not worry about Arctic going under, if that is a concern.  It is one of Canada's top growing companines and I believe that they are hear to stay.


Your question was two folds.  First was owners of the two brands to post opinions and the second part was if you are getting a good deal.  Questions like this raise debates and anger amongst many people here.  The reason being that when owners post their opinions, they show bias, which is natural.  So people that dont own these particular brands get upset and jump back in.  

This forum is subjective based on personal preference and expierence.  you will never get the answer that you are ultimately searching for.  I know, because this time last year, I was asking the same questions between arctic and sundance.  

You go with what feels right for you, what is priced right for you, and all round what appeals to you more.

10 people here may hate arctic or caldera, but 10 more people may love them.  
So what does this do for you? It just helps you make a more informed decision about your decision and purchase.

My opinion, the sumit.  I loved it wet tested it several times and think it looks great.  The only thing is that I have never wet tested a caldera, the tub never appealed to me.  See what I mean about how to take these opinions.  

I wish you all the best, and please let us know what you pick.  I think either way you will be happy with your decision.

[JcDenton]

I love the arctic brand, however, one flaw that bothers me is the jets.  They do not lock into place, so they have a tendency of turning randomly to the off position.  This has been corrected for 2006, and I believe that warranty may infact cover this.  

That's ironic Bosco! Just yesterday I went to my dealer with a few more jets that were also causing me grief. Overall, in 18 months of tub ownership, I've had to change out quite a few (too many) jets.

The catch here? Well, after talking with the guy at Arctic about my displeasure -  he offered to come by and swap out ALL my old jets for the new and improved ones that don't weaken over time (plastic problem).

This is why we continue to pleased with our tub. Our service continues to be professional and accountable.

As for the sticker shock, I must chime in again - when we purchased our Arctic Summit Signiture it was the cheaper option of several comparable tubs in our area!


Jc

[tony]

That's ironic Bosco! Just yesterday I went to my dealer with a few more jets that were also causing me grief. Overall, in 18 months of tub ownership, I've had to change out quite a few (too many) jets.

The catch here? Well, after talking with the guy at Arctic about my displeasure -  he offered to come by and swap out ALL my old jets for the new and improved ones that don't weaken over time (plastic problem).

This is why we continue to pleased with our tub. Our service continues to be professional and accountable.

As for the sticker shock, I must chime in again - when we purchased our Arctic Summit Signiture it was the cheaper option of several comparable tubs in our area!


Jc

The value of a good dealer is sometimes immeasurable.

[J._McD]

Bosco, JC and Duff all offer what is evolving to be some of the best advice here in the forum and they all have consumer experience that reflect the confusion that bounds.  All three are consumers with comments and opinions from clear minds of thoght that are not "opinionated", they are slightly "biased" because the own a very good Hot Tub they choose to buy, regardless of who the manufacturer is.  

They touch on Product, Price, Dealers, and Service, all of which are very important in the over all decision.  They offer some good and sound advice, but yet tell Anne that it is her decision to make, and it truley is.

It is the confusion of shopping and listening to all the pitches, features, the benefits, who is bigger or better, which is the best bargin, and discounts that grip us with the fear of making the wrong decision.  They are very much seemingly similar resulting in the common objective, SOMETHING FOR YOU, THAT RELAXES, IMPROVES LIFE, AND THAT YOU CAN FIND COMFORT IN.

They are all good.

Welcome Anne, to "Hottubology", where you shop until you drop, don't know who to trust, are impressed with the "Deal" that expires before you are able think about it.  

[Spatech_tuo]

Any Arctic or Caldera owners out there with good or bad comments about their spas? We have looked at, and will wet test tomorrow, the above spas. I know that a lot of it will come down to what we feel, but just wanted to get opinions.

Both are respected brands. Let us know how your wet tests go. That is key.

The arctic model (Summit) is either the "legend" or "ultra" level (can't remember- will clarify tomorrow) and retails at $12,500. Floor model (2005) going for $7500. The Caldera Moorea is a 2006, and I think would end up being about the same price.

It's always good when prices are similar as you really don't want that to be a major factor unless the difference is extreme. BTW, any spa that sells for $7500 NEVER really sold for $12,500.

One last note: I really liked the Caldera dealer, and their store has been there for 20 years. The Arctic dealer mostly had pool tables, not spas, and was a fairly new business, but seemed knowledgeable. Decisions, decisions.....

Being comfortable that your dealer will be there for you and is capable definitely important. Do they each perform their own service?

[anne]

Both are respected brands. Let us know how your wet tests go. That is key.

Being comfortable that your dealer will be there for you and is capable definitely important. Do they each perform their own service?

We wet tested today, and it was very interesting. I liked the arctic quite a bit. I know others have commented that the molded seats are too confining, but we both  really liked them. The only thing I would have liked would have been some sort of shoulder jet.
I really wanted to like the Calderas, but I could not stay in any of the seats, the lounger was useless to me, and the small jets were itchy/irritating (now I get that). Some of them did have shoulder jets, and those were the only seats I liked, because the shoulder/neck rest helped me stay in the seat. No criticism to them as a company, but for my small frame and personal taste, Caldera did not work.

As far as the dealers, they do perform their own service, and I had increased confidence in the Arctic dealer today.

Can anyone recommend small jets that dont create that focal itch/irritation, or other companies that use only the larger type? We did like the jets in the arctic- only missing element is shoulder massage.

[Tman122]

Both Sundance and Dimension One focus on only large jets.

[bosco0633]

Anne, does your dealer have an arctic avalanche in stock.  This tub has one molded seat that has neck jets in them.  Also, give the tundra a try.  If you go in the one seat with the jets configured like an upside down triangal, you will get a neck message from the top four jets.  Turn the diverters to that seat and you will not belive just how great it is on you neck and shoulders.  

I believe that StlRex has the same tub as me, and if he reads this he will comment on it as well.  

[Hot Tub Guru]

To get an Arctic Summit Legend at $7500 is yes a great deal.  Yes the retail of $12,500 is something you probally wont ever pay.  But that tub usually sells for $9000.  

The other factor I want to bring up is please compair apples to apples.  Example the Summit Legend has 3 hp pumps with 61 rotating jets.  While the Caldera Moorea has 2 3.7hp pumps with 9 rotating jets and 29 straight hole jets.  These two spas are not even close to compair.  Please take into consideration a Summit Signature which has 33 rotating jet with 2 4hp pumps.  This would be more of apples to apples.

With that 2005 Summit Legend might be less then the 2006 Summit Signatue.  

The problem with the jets poping out and shutting off is common among any companie using waterway jets.  Arctic is coming up with an insert to correct this problem with in the next few months.  Contact your local dealer with an update.

[stl-rex]

Anne,

I second Bosco's comments.  The Tundra and Summit sit quite differently.  The Summit has the inverted triangle shaped jet pattern, but in what I believe is a shallower more sculpted seat.  The seat in the Tundra with a similar pattern is deeper with a flatter seat on the chair.  My wife at 5'2" can use the seat because there is a ledge against which you can brace your feet to limit float.  Because you sit deeper, it really works the traps and shoulders.  Because most of the jets produce a large pattern and have large orifices you can sit there as long as needed.  Sundance and D1 larger diameter jets are not the same and in my opinion don't feel as good.  The Sundance seems to needle you more and D1 uses jets similar to those that Arctic quit using in the late 04-05 range for these improved feel jets.  

You should really wet-test any spa that uses outside of the water "shoulder" jets like in the Avalanche.  I believe "keating" on here has one and shuts them off due to splashing.  We have friends with a Master with similar out of the water jets that also splash and don't get much use.

My primary use of the tub is for the trap/shoulder/neck area and the Tundra thoroughly massages that like no other I tested.  No other tub that I know of uses that jet nor has that jet pattern (at least in '05).  Since October (when I got the tub), I haven't been back to the Chiropractor for any neck adjustments.

I have the Legend EX which has the three 4 HP pumps.  You can direct the full force of one pump to the top 6 jets in the chair with one diverter.  Unbelievable power and massage without the itching.  I rarely need to do it anymore.  "Normal" diverter setting are now more than sufficient since I am routinely in the tub.  I would really recommend checking out the Tundra.  It's still sculpted, but not to the degree of the Summit.

[anne]

Anne, does your dealer have an arctic avalanche in stock.  This tub has one molded seat that has neck jets in them.  Also, give the tundra a try.  If you go in the one seat with the jets configured like an upside down triangal, you will get a neck message from the top four jets.  Turn the diverters to that seat and you will not belive just how great it is on you neck and shoulders.  

I believe that StlRex has the same tub as me, and if he reads this he will comment on it as well.  

Thank you both. Unfortunately, the dealer in this area only has a summit left as an '05 floor model. I'd love to test an avalanche or tundra, but dont think I can afford one at "real" prices. I did experience the neck jets in both the D1 californian and the LA spas Oasis.......very nice, and I can only dream about what might be nicer!