Full Foam versus Perimeter Insulation

[gm]

This is my first time on this website and I would like to know about the pros and cons of Full Foam versus Perimeter Insulation in tub construction.  I am in the market for a new tub.  The tub I have is 20 years old and is ready for replacement.  I have been looking at an Arctic Spa and I am not sure about their claims for using less power to heat, but I do like the idea of being able to access all areas of the underside without the foam interference.  They also use much heavier fibreglass and have a much better designed spa cover.  The other spa that I am looking at is a Pacific spa.  This unit is fully foamed and appears to be a solid unit though it doesn't quite meet up to the Arctic in features etc.  The Pacific tub is considerably less expensive than the Arctic.  Both these tubs are manufactured in Canada.

[Spatech_tuo]

I have been looking at an Arctic Spa and I am not sure about their claims for using less power to heat, but I do like the idea of being able to access all areas of the underside without the foam interference.  

I question any claims of superiority also. At the same time, if you like their spa, buy it. I may be more of a full foam guy but a themopane spa can be energy efficient as well if it's well made and Arctic has some happy customers here that you can confer with. I haven't heard of Pacific spas so maybe one our northern members can comment on them.

[gm]

Thanks.
Pacific spas has been around for quite a long time.
My last spa was a Pacific spa and it is over 20 years old.
It was a very good unit.  It ran off of a heat exchanger through our hot water boiler, but with the rising price of natural gas to heat the water, it will be much less expensive for us to heat now with electricity.  Ergo the energy efficiency question.
GM

[Tman122]

It's possible the Arctic could be a few pennys a month less than some brands but not all. The shell is no thicker than a bunch of other brands. They however do spend a bit more on the cover than most brands with good reason. 80% of the heat loss comes from there! Whichever brand you decide to buy make sure you get a cover upgrade.

[bosco0633]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

this is like a bad movie that never ends, this topic.

I am an arctic owner.  I purchased the tundra signature, and I am also in Ontario Canada.  I would say to you that arctic is a great tub.  I think thier claims and studies are stretched as a marketing ploy, but they do build a quality hot tub.  It is a competitive product and it feels good.

Now with that said, hot water and jets feel good no matter what.  When you purchase a tub in the price range as arctic, there are several tubs that are great quality.  What I am trying to say is that tubs now of days are built so efficient that they run pretty well the same.  1.00 a day is the going rate.  

Lets face it, the tub can be the most energy efficient product on the market, whats that going to save you a month???  Maybe 5 or 10 cents off of your hydro bill.  

FF vs. TP, is the on going debate for some.  Myself, I have come to the conclusion that it all comes down to preference.  You have to decide what you want more, do you want your pipes secured and fully insulated or do you want to be able to open the side panel and fix what you need to easly if need be.  Both insulate well and are accepted ways to insulate.

Pacific spas I did look at.  In my opinion you are comparing ford to mercedies.  Each have their pros and cons.  You really cant compare these tubs to one another in my opinion.  They are not in the same classification.  

the last thing you must consider, is that arctic tend to be formed seating, not open seating.  I enjoy the moulded seating, I feel like I have more control in the tub, others like the open seating and that may be someting to consider as well.

Good luck.  dont fall for the hype, educate yourself and wet test.

[nicker]

very well said bosco0633!!! I agree.    FF or TP.  Its in your preference. MOST I do say MOST quality tubs are the same cost range per month for hydro.  Keep in mind when you are talking to people about monthly hydro costs is that hyrdo rates are different in each georgraphical areas.

You and only you can decide what tubs suites you and your familys needs.  Don't forget.....wet test.

Good luck

[stl-rex]

Bosco is right on.  If you wet test the spa and like it, Arctic is a fine brand, appears to be well made, and appears to be at least on par with other brands in terms of heat efficiencies.  

The marketing spin that folks here hate:  Arctic came out favorably in a test by the Alberta Research Council.  The caveat is ARC consulted with Arctic so there are those who feel the results are biased.  Also the test environment had to be a contolled one, therefore actual performance out in the elements may vary.  Folks here also moaned about the test because Arctic does supply a thicker cover standard which could provide an advantage in such a test.  But if you are comparing brands, not insulation methods, and you test what comes with the spa (as ARC bought the spas themselves from independent dealers) I see no issue other than the test parameters could have been defined a bit better in the report.

Also as Bosco points out, Arctic generally has more defined seating, although they have a few models that are more open.  That becomes a personal preference issue.  We preferred it.  The armrests in the four corner seats in the Tundra allow even my wife at 5'2" to use to the deepest seat and make it very easy to stay in the seats in general.  

When you have spas that are well insulated, by either method, I think there are other factors than method of insulation that should drive the decision

[Rayman]

a different spin on this might be, is one loader than the other.  IMHO FF is quieter.

Ray

[drewstar]

The tub you have now is 20 years old and ready for replacement?

What brand of tub is that?

[Mendocino101]

I think that the above responses are all very accurate and well thought out. Most all of your better made spas will cost ABOUT the same to run and even IF one was say 20% better (Marquis... ...j/k).....you are only talking about 3 to 4 dollars....Find the dealer and spa you are most comfortable with and you should be fine.

[HotTubMan]

a different spin on this might be, is one loader than the other.  IMHO FF is quieter.

Ray

I have sold both, used both methods. IMO Coleman (a TP) was about the quietest tub I had heard. Many shoppers agreed.

[spahappy]

I sell both types, Coleman and Jacuzzi. Side be side in the showroom the Colemans are quieter.

[SerjicalStrike]

Could this be moved to "Beating a Dead Horse" before we start, well, beating a dead horse?

[Mendocino101]

I sell both types, Coleman and Jacuzzi. Side be side in the showroom the Colemans are quieter.

Just a question, are the Jacuzzi 48 frame pumps and the Coleman's 56 frame if so this might be the reason for them being quieter.

[drewstar]

and fwiw, some colemans only have 1 pump.

I find it hard to believe that a if two spas have identical pumps, the TP is qoing to be quiter than a FF.