Coughing & Tub that quickly seems to get dirty

[tped]

I've been struggling with an indoor hot tub for about the last three months ... relatively new to the whole Hot Tub thing but seemed to be doing fine for my first 6-8 months before this.

For the last few months the tub seems to get dirty very quickly.  Even when recently cleaned, we tend to cough while in the tub and dirt rings seem apparent.  Water is clear, about 2 weeks old, tub has been used possibly 1-2 times since the last water change, filter cleaning and  new purifier cartridge (oxidizer).  

I've had water tested at the dealer, they claim it looks good and once attributed the coughing to chemical saturation eventhough I didn't think many chemicals had been added ... I simply adjust alkalinity and ph after filling then MPS before or after use.   Test strips indicate that things are good - water looks clear doesn't really smell, yet we tend to cough when we are in there.

any ideas/guidance would be appreciated

[Anoroc]

I'd be interested in hearing opinions on this as well.  Sounds a bit unusual.

[st18901]

bromine or chlorine?

MPS would hint to bromine, but just want to make sure.

Also, what color is the ring/stain?

MPS will release gas - indoors that could be your cough problem. Shocking after use rather than before and ventilating well for a couple minutes (not covering up the tub right away, but letting it run for a couple minutes and airing the entire room) could solve the cough problem.

I know that the first time I shocked my tub, I covered it right after. The following day, when I uncovered, I was hit by a gas pretty good. I've since learned, from reading on this sight, not to do that. Besides being rough on people, it's rough on covers.

Does the room smell "chlorininy"?

[lawdawgva]

I had the coughing problem for a while on an outdoor spa, believe it or not.  Also had the ring problem around the same time.  But after reading your post, I see that our situation was not the same, I was using Soft Soak (Biguanide).   I've since switched to an ozonator, Nature 2 cartridge and SpaGuard Enhanced Shock and have not had the coughing problem nor the ring around the tub since.

The only thing I can attribute it to is my sensitivity to the Soft Soak.  As you know, when running, the spa churns up millions of tiny bubbles which are basically micronizing whatever chemicals you are using in the tub and spraying them right into your face.  So, if you are already sensitive to the chemical (no matter what you're using), its going to make it even worse.  Next time you drain and refill, you may want to consider switching sanitizers and see if that helps.  Good luck!

-Sarge

[SJK]

It may have nothing to do with your chemicals. I don't know what kind of ventilation you have for your indoor location, but check carefully around the outside of the tub and in the area around it for any signs of mold.  That sort of thing can cause coughing and a whole lot of other real bad things.  Good luck...I hope you find your problem.

[SerjicalStrike]

If you are not using a saznitzer like chlorine or bromine or a biguanide system, you need to strat.  Not using a residual sanitizer can be very dangerous for your health.  

Without using a sanitizer like the ones mentioned above, you could have had bacteria growing in your tub for the last 6-8 months.  

[tped]

Wow!  What replies!  I wish some of my boards (I'm a techie) would be so active ... thanks all... here are answers to questions in order received...

bromine or chlorine?

MPS would hint to bromine, but just want to make sure.

Also, what color is the ring/stain?

MPS will release gas <Clip> Shocking after use rather than before and ventilating well for a couple minutes <clip>

Does the room smell "chlorininy"?

- it has an nature2 system on it - a cartridge that goes in one of the filters.  'Purifier?".  And corresponding ozone gizmo in engine compartment - Repair guy claims this appears to be working.  I did change brands this last go round (2 refills ago - approx Oct 1) - I also chlorine once a week.

- Ring was brown when it was bad (changed water on this one) now seems to just be a faint dark discoloration

- we can try to consistantly shoking AFTER use and airing out for a few minutes before we close the cover.  I think we've been trying it both ways here recently

- Room does not smell chloriniy - water even smells fresh up close

I had the coughing problem for a while on an outdoor spa, believe it or not.  <clip>I've since switched to an ozonator, Nature 2 cartridge and SpaGuard Enhanced Shock and have not had the coughing problem nor the ring around the tub since.

The only thing I can attribute it to is my sensitivity to the Soft Soak.  <clip> you may want to consider switching sanitizers and see if that helps.  Good luck!
-Sarge

We DID change brand of chemicals - still a nature2 system, but different brand - not sure if these could irritate, but its all of us, not just one person affected.

It may have nothing to do with your chemicals. I don't know what kind of ventilation you have for your indoor location, but check carefully around the outside of the tub and in the area around it for any signs of mold.  That sort of thing can cause coughing and a whole lot of other real bad things.  Good luck...I hope you find your problem.

- Will do - ventillation is really good, I'm pretty observant (anal) - but I'll check, perhaps have someone come in?  

If you are not using a saznitzer like chlorine or bromine or a biguanide system, you need to strat.  Not using a residual sanitizer can be very dangerous for your health.

Without using a sanitizer like the ones mentioned above, you could have had bacteria growing in your tub for the last 6-8 months.  

- I'm pretty new - does my ozone box, nature2 system qualify as a 'biguanide' system?  Is bacteria detected when the water is tested at the Pool Store?  

Yikes! ... I'm getting nervous here

[drewstar]

No the Nature 2 system is not the Biaguide system.

I think you need to have a sanitizer in your program. The Ozinator, and the N2 Cartridge aren't enough.  I am under the impression that you have a Watkins product, and typcally Dichlor is the recomended sanitizer.

You should be sanitizing your tub with Dichlor (not MPS Shock) after each use, and about once a week using the MPS.

I do not know if this is the cause of your coughing, but it can't hurt?


??

[tped]

thanks - I will check the chemicals they gave us - I'm not sure about the MPS vs Dichlor vs shock.  I may have mis-represented what we use ...

I had someone out and guide us on chemical usage, and also follow the instructions that come back when the water is tested - but quite frankly, I'm so dang confused right now that I'm thinking about fixing it with a chainsaw and a dumpster.

everyone tells me that once you figure the chemicals out its simple - but this has not been the case for me ... especially recently

its a hotsprings

[JJ]

I had the same problem.  Coughing and the water always seemed to have a strange odor.  My dealer recommended a product called Spa Sentry, which is officially a PH lock product (Make sure you have your ph balanced first before you use it).  What it does in addition to ph control however, is cause an unbelieveable amount of crap to come out of solution in your water.  Turn on the jets, add a whole bottle of spa sentry and get an entire roll of paper towels, because in a few minutes an amazingly disgusting brown ring is going to form on the side of your tub.  Start wiping it away with paper towels.  After about 20-30 minutes it will stop.  This eliminated both my brown ring and odor problem.

I bought a water filtration/purifier system for the house drinking water after doing this the first time because I could not believe what I was drinking out of the tap.

[SerjicalStrike]

If you have not been adding sanitzer and you are getting a cough when using the spa, discontinue using the spa.  

You will need to superchlorinate the spa to kill all the bacteria in there.  This can be done by turning all the diverter valves to the middle position, turning on all air controls, and dumping in 4-5gallons of bleach.  Turn on all the jets for 10 minutes.  Then turn them all off and let the water settle for 5 mintes.  Repeat turning on and off the jets for 1 hr and then drain the spa.  Fill the spa up again and get the chlorine level up to the 3-5 ppm range.

You will also need to get on a schedule for using a real sanitizer when you done using the spa each time.  

If your coughing persists, you may need to see a doctor and let them know the situation with the spa.

[tped]

Wouldn't the dealer have given us a "real sanitizer"  as part of our program?  I'm sort of confused ... I'm at work but had somone read the bottle to me over the Phone ... it is "Brilliance Shock" an orange bottle active ingredience is Peroxymonosulfate (is this MPS?).   We put this in before (or after) each use - supposedly went with the new cartridge (nature2).  

If I need to supernuke w/ bleach - should I leave all filters, cartridges and such in the tub when superchlorinating - Perhaps throw them all away after the fact and start new?

Jeeezzzz this is creepy ... that chainsaw is looking mighty tempting

[sunnydee]

From what I understand(and its still all pretty new to me too) is that with the start up of Nature2, you need to add dichlor to your water. Maybe you're over doing it with the MPS.(?)

[tped]

I THINK I'm beginning to understand here - slowly putting two and two together ....

Dichlor = Chlorine(?)
- yes, I do add this at start up (after initial filling and balancing) and then weekly
MPS may or may not = Shock(?)
- we were told to toss in after each use

I'm wondering if a 'sanitizer' is a gizmo (perhaps floating) that is in the pool all the time.  We never had anything like this, and as I mentioned earlier, did fine with the tub for the first 6-8 months ... cleaned, refilled a number of times BUT kept using the 'program' (aka chemicals/cartriges, etc) that were provided by the previous homeowners.   UNTIL these ran out, I took the bottles and such to the dealer who didn't carry the same brand, but DID sell me alternatives ... this is when I began to struggle!  

If we have a nature2 system and a bottle of "Brilliance Shock" and chlorine (same as Dichlor?).  Should we toss shock & chlorine in after each use?  and leave the cover open to ventilate?

one thing for sure ... these hot tubs sure are relaxing!  I'm all stressed out over the 'see your doctor' part!

[JJ]

Despite what the Nature2 box says, you still need to use some sanitizer.  I also use nature2 and have Ozone, but I consider them a backup.  I use DiClor (2 tsp) after each use and shock with MPS about every 10 days.  If you have truly not been using any sanitizer, I cannot belive the nature2 and ozone would still be keeping your water clear.  Go to Doc's site and read Vermonter's water care method.  It works great for me.