technical question for the experts

[salesdvl]

This came up in conversation the other day.  Does normal water chemical treament take care of things such as HIV, Hepatitus etc...  The conversation evolved into the specific question of   If someone has HIV and goes into a spa, if they have a cut or a sore, does the spa water kill the HIV that might get intot he water?   I couldnt answer definativley without doing some research.  So I am starting here...

[drewstar]

Well from the website Thebody.com:

             Hot Tubs



Q:  I go to a hot tub where Gay men have sex when I was there (alone) I started to think maybe I could get HIV from sitting in the tub naked , do you think it is possible ? should I worry about any other STDs sitting in a Hot Tub ? I asked the owners and they said the hot water would kill the HIV and to sit on a towel in the sauna. please reply




A: It is highly unlikely that you would get infected with HIV by contact with anything in a public environment; this includes hot tubs, public pools, showers, towels, saunas, steamrooms, etc. There is no evidence that HIV has been transmitted through casual contact. HIV does not survive in the environment for very long and you would need to have mucous membrane/bloodstream contact for transmission to be possible.

The owner of the facility is probably right; the heated water in a hot tub would probably render HIV inactive (especially if there were chemicals in the water). Also, the water would probably dilute any infectious fluid to uninfectious levels. It is also unlikely that any STDs would be spread through sitting in a hot tub.

It MAY be possible to get infected with certain STDs (and probably not HIV) by sitting in a sauna without a towel wrapped around you, but I'm not sure of the evidence surrounding this. For instance, sitting on a bench that a person with a skin-related infection (like herpes) had been sitting on MAY pose a risk for infection, but the risk is probably low. Your skin would have to come into contact with virus relatively quickly. Wrap a towel around you just to be sure.

The full link is:

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Archive/Hepatitis/Q62052.html

[spaman--]

This came up in conversation the other day. šDoes normal water chemical treament take care of things such as HIV, Hepatitus etc... šThe conversation evolved into the specific question of š If someone has HIV and goes into a spa, if they have a cut or a sore, does the spa water kill the HIV that might get intot he water? š I couldnt answer definativley without doing some research. šSo I am starting here...

Im like the t.v character 'Munk" so I am not a good person to field this question, however the thaught of anyone using these facilities makes me throw up in my mouth a bit. In my mind theres no clear evidence that any of these diseases are totally killed by pool or spa water treatments. Then there is the slight chance that the water in the vessel is not being maintained properly. Lastly I am remeinded of what is lurking in the filters in these type of pools or spas. I live by the phrase "better safe then sorry"

[East_TX_Spa]

HIV transmitted AIDS is a farce.  This man is the only person I have ever heard explain this disease in a logical, factual method.  Everything else that has been written about AIDS is disinformation and hysterics.

http://www.duesberg.com/

Hepatitis is a whole other can of worms.

You won't get AIDS from using a spa.  Don't engage in deviant sexual behavior, don't use nitrate based recreational drugs, don't live in a third-world ****hole country, and you're very unlikely to acquire any sort of immuno-deficiency condition.

Terminator

[Vinny]

A properly sanitized spa should take care of any disease. Running a spa at 0.5 PPM for 20 minutes IS NOT a properly sanitized spa that will take care of diseases. The one disease that should be worried about is hepititus (swp?), from what I remember - it can live for years outside the body.

I will relate this to fecal matter in a pool (no pun or reverence intended), when that happens then a shock or shocks of chlorine is needed to destroy the bacterial count.

I'm sure that somewhere is a contact time number for disinfection puposes. I had a link on my computer on this but redid my computer and never put it back on.

[Vinny]

Here's a link:

  http://ohioline.osu.edu/b795/b795_7.html

it answers some questions.

[salesdvl]

so far I found this:  http://www.sfaf.org/aids101/transmission.html

scroll down & it says:
Swimming pools and hot tubs

The chemicals used in swimming pools and hot tubs would instantly kill any HIV, if the hot water hadn't killed it already.

[Brewman]

Even without all that sanitizer help, it's my understanding that the HIV virus dosn't survive outside to body for any length of time.  If it was possible to get HIV from contact with doorknobs, public lavs, etc,  we'd be in deep trouble by now.

[Chas]

Is this a good place to mention that only a few tub makers offer no-bypass filtration?

[salesdvl]

Is this a good place to mention that only a few tub makers offer no-bypass filtration?

 

NO !  

[Chas]

Ok, then I wont.

[salesdvl]

Good.  

I find this subject interesting.  What I would like to find is something that says the criteria specifically.  Everything so far is "may", "should" etc...
I want to find that says HIV will be killed in 8ppm of chlorine in 2 minutes or that Hepatitus C will be killed after 6 minutes at 104 degrees.  etc...

[Vinny]

Good.  

I find this subject interesting.  What I would like to find is something that says the criteria specifically.  Everything so far is "may", "should" etc...
I want to find that says HIV will be killed in 8ppm of chlorine in 2 minutes or that Hepatitus C will be killed after 6 minutes at 104 degrees.  etc...

You asked ... I delivered!

If I get fired, I want a high paying job at LA!!!

  http://www.cdc.gov/healthyswimming/pdf/fecalacc.pdf

[Bonibelle]

Salesdvl, I am not an expert by any means, however my husband and I have both worked in microbiology for pharmaceutical companies for years (I also worked in a hospital lab).
First hand experience tells me that there are no absolutes, like you are looking for.  If you watch the news you can relate to the fear of a pandemic of Bird Flu.  This virus originated in animals and right now is transmitted from the animals to humans. Eventually, the virus will mutate and aquire the ability to be transmitted human to human.  The point that I am trying to make is all microorganisms have the ability to change and mutate. therefore, there is probably NO one sanitization method that with absolute certainty kills all the delightful little goobers that can contaminate water.  Since you don't  know the amount of contaminaton at any one time (bioburden) then you are only decontaminating based on guidelines that have been established by the sanitizer manufacturer.
Current research supports
the theories about HIV, hep A, hep C,  etc however since Microbiology is not an EXACT science, to some degree, that is subject to change.  My husband and I have already decided to conduct our own microbiological challenges when we have our tub up and running. We won't be able to access any viral contaminants but we could isolate and identify typical water and human contaminants.  One critical item to deconatmination of anything (water included) is contact time with the sanitizing agent. This is demonstrated on the CDC website that Vinny posted.  

I was really turned off to the whole hot tub concept after my cousin contracted some sort of disgusting yeast infection (or that is what she said it was) after soaking in a brand new tub with friends from work. It took weeks on Cipro (the Anthrax drug) to clear the red inflamed  mess all over her body! this forum actually helped me to realize that with proper maintence a hot tub is actually a healthy thing. But.. I will be very selective about who soaks in my hot tub...and I will insist that they shower first....I know it sounds a bit extreme...but maybe that will change after I see for myself how effective the sanitizers are. If my kids want friends over that will be on the day before we do a water change!  
Anyone know what inactivates Bromine?

[Bonibelle]

Sorry, my husband gave me hell for writing a lab report.
I guess I need something better to do with my free time!
Maybe he should let me go back to work!