Fees for Warranty Service

[drewstar]

 "Or with a costco spa you would spend $30-$50 for the part, and then $60-$90 per hour to have someone fix it. "

No,  the part's under warrenty by the manufactuer, so no cost for the part.  

[J._McD]

This is somewhat routine, and can vary conserably from dealer to dealer depending on circumstances.  In my case My Dynasty dealer covers a huge part of the state, but I'm just accross town.  If I have a legitimate problem they never charge me that fee, but it is in the warranty.  They have sold tubs to people who live 60 miles away that it takes 90 minutes to get there, those people are charged the trip charge and the dealer has always been up front about that.

Oh, my dealer also reserves the right to charge that fee. If my tub isn't heating and my filters are clogged, he probably even then wouldn't charge, but if I called twice for the same problem, I bet he might.  On a big ticket item where the end user doesn't have to understand the device being used you almost have to have that option to make people think twice about calling. I do in-home computer service and I work on a lot of older systems.  If I repair an internet connection and then the user calls me and tells me they can no longer print, I'll go back and see if its something I did, but if its unrelated, I reserve the right to charge for the trip.  It makes people think before they call.

Bill, you hit the nail on the head.  It amounts to no more than "help me help you" before I come out.  Amazingly, in the customers opinion, everything should be covered under warranty.  I may be a bit cynical, but I would never charge a customer in the first 90 days.  It is my responsibility to orient them correctly, give them adequate infromation NOT provided by the manufacturer.  I can not begin to tell you how many times the dealer has to go out and "turn" the face of the jet because the jet doesn't work, or then there is the pump problem when it dosen't work and the tech takes a dirty filter out and walla, the pump works "just like before".   We try to screen the need to travel first if it is correctible, but I would suppose we would need a crystal ball.

Drew, is a good armchair quarterback and should be running his own Hot Tub business while giving advice.  Again, I can not begin to count the number of customers who have "teenagers" (they are different and all the rules change) that open the cover without unlocking the back straps.  The resulting damage always remains a mystery and it must have been delivered that way.  Then again, the "hydraulic" lifters have a locking device on them that keeps them from coming down on your head, when someone tries to "forceably" close it, guess what, the hydraulic lifters are devective be cause they have a 90° bend in them and won't work any longer.  Still, they expect that would that be covered under warranty:-/

The actual problem that started this thread remains a mystery.  But how can any of us make such assumptions.  Customer service does come at a price, and it is usually borne by the dealer, but some things you gotta charge for.

Had a customer call last week, the symptom he reported "same thing as last time", any other help or details to identify, "just send someone out".  The tech got out there 67 miles one way, turned the breaker off to reboot the spa and turned it back on, walla it's fixed and no problem found, no warranty reimbursement.  The customer called to negotiate the house call charge.  

Go figure, with customer comments or attitude indicated in this thread, when they squeeze all of the juice out of the lemon, I might as well give him the store keys, have him pay the bills, do the water test, deal with customers that expect everything to be free and lock up at night.  

Thank God we have been blessed with more good customer than the alternate choice.  Out of 300 new ones a years we are bound to get a few that you just want to fire.  In 21 years we have gone back and repossed the spa with a chashiers check in hand for their purchase price from unbelievably demanding and condesending people that expect you to do everything for nothing when they treat you like the lowest life on this planet.  Let them go to my competitor.

[drewstar]

J_McD.

you see, I think this is part of our problem.  I honestly think that you and I are saying the exact same thing, yet you tell me I'm am armchair quaterback, and other snide snippets.

Read my posts again.  I said "in this circumstance".  Which, we soon learned it is covered and will be repaired for free.

You also said you'd do the same thing that you'd fix it for free, given we are only 1.5 months into the new tub.



Huh. Maybe  I should run my own spa  business.  

You guys all take wednesdays off to play golf, right? -

[drewstar]

Walla? That's a town in Washinton state correct?  Take a left at Daitsburg and drive for about 15-20 minutes and voila! You're in Walla Walla.    

[Spatech_tuo]

Huh. Maybe  I should run my own spa  business.  

You guys all take wednesdays off to play golf, right? -

Fishing on Tuesdays, Golf Wednesdays and Polo on Thrusdays.

[Drewski]

Had a customer call last week, the symptom he reported "same thing as last time", any other help or details to identify, "just send someone out".  The tech got out there 67 miles one way, turned the breaker off to reboot the spa and turned it back on, walla it's fixed and no problem found, no warranty reimbursement.  The customer called to negotiate the house call charge.  

Go figure, with customer comments or attitude indicated in this thread, when they squeeze all of the juice out of the lemon, I might as well give him the store keys, have him pay the bills, do the water test, deal with customers that expect everything to be free and lock up at night.  

Thank God we have been blessed with more good customer than the alternate choice.  Out of 300 new ones a years we are bound to get a few that you just want to fire.  In 21 years we have gone back and repossed the spa with a chashiers check in hand for their purchase price from unbelievably demanding and condesending people that expect you to do everything for nothing when they treat you like the lowest life on this planet.  Let them go to my competitor.

Ya know, J._McD, GOOD customer service is all about attitude and quite frankly, based on what you post here, if your store was near me I wouldn't buy from you.

Why? Because again and again there always seems to be an "edge” to numerous posts you have made to this forum. Politeness, apparently, is a concept that has escaped you – something that I find surprising given the business you’re in.

Now I sure you and your defenders will come back with some quippy remarks about how right you are etc., etc., etc., and that’s cool -- BUT, it still won't change my opinion or, undoubtedly, the opinions of others who probably think the same thing but just don't respond because they don’t think you’re worth the effort or time. Today, you caught me in the right mood.

Do yourself a favor and take a lesson from Chas, Stuart, Wetone and any other numbers of dealers who post here. Read HOW they talk. It might do you some good...

Drewski

[East_TX_Spa]

We service a very large territory (Most of NE Texas and NW Louisiana).  As long as the spa is under warranty, there is NO CHARGE TO THE CUSTOMER, including gas money or whatnot.  When the warranty expires, there is a $60/hour + parts charge, no matter where the customer is in our territory.

Now, granted, we have a fair amount of going out and flipping breakers and cleaning filters for folks.  Every new customer gets a free one of these.  After that, we have to charge them a service fee.  For example:

A few days ago a customer called to say that his spa was broken.  He told me it is set on 98* and his thermometer is reading 102*.  His spa is sitting on his deck in the middle of a Texas summer sun.  I told him it is just hot and gave him some suggestions on how to cool it off.  No, he insisted the spa was broken.  Our service manager called him and explained it to him.  No, he insisted we come out and fix the spa immediately.

Service manager went out, did a diagnostic, found nothing wrong.  We did not charge him as he is a new customer.

A week later he called to say his spa is set on 95* and it is actually 102*.  We went over the whole scenario again and he insisted we come out and fix the spa.  Again, nothing was wrong with it, but he was charged a service fee.

I believe we tried everything we could to save him some money.  I can only assume he thought that we did not want to provide him service.  Sometimes, it just goes like that, but only on rare occasions.

Terminator

[frankeyboy]

The actual problem that started this thread remains a mystery.  But how can any of us make such assumptions.  Customer service does come at a price, and it is usually borne by the dealer, but some things you gotta charge for.

The original problem was a pair of broken cover lifter shocks.  They mount to the lifter frame via plastic connections.  Both of them ended up breaking within about 30 days of installation.  I don't know how they ended up breaking, I just noticed pieces laying next to the tub one morning.  My dealer replaced them this afternoon and said that most likely in happened while opening the cover and allowing the cover to spring upright without keeping a hold on it.  I know this didnt happend when I was using it, but perhaps the wife or kids did it.  Either way since this is our first hot tub, and we received no direction on operating the lifter, and it came with no written instructions, I can see how someone might allow the cover to lift itself upright after folding it in half.  Its fixed now, and at no charge, although if they break again I'm out of luck.  

Frankeyboy

[J._McD]

 Below is a pic of the broken shock


Frankeyboy

For the life of me I am really trying to get my bearings right and figure this picture out.  I realize it is the end of the hydraulic lifter that is attached to the pivot point represented by the "nut" anchored to the frame of the lifter.  Is this attached to the spa?  What are you holding next to it?  The tension clip has orange something on it, is that rust or corrosion?  

I am sorry to say this, but I can't make out what is broken.  I don't see the plastic or what appears to be broken and see something that appears to have corrosion on it.  Can you help me out here to see what is broken?

.....I have had it about a month and a half.  Recently the plastic brackets that attach the shocks to the metal framing of the cover lifter cracked and fell apart.  The lifter still works, but it takes a lot more effort to lift it. .....Frankeyboy

[J._McD]

A few days ago a customer called to say that his spa was broken.  He told me it is set on 98* and his thermometer is reading 102*.  His spa is sitting on his deck in the middle of a Texas summer sun.  I told him it is just hot and gave him some suggestions on how to cool it off.  No, he insisted the spa was broken.  Our service manager called him and explained it to him.  No, he insisted we come out and fix the spa immediately.

Service manager went out, did a diagnostic, found nothing wrong.  We did not charge him as he is a new customer.

A week later he called to say his spa is set on 95* and it is actually 102*.  We went over the whole scenario again and he insisted we come out and fix the spa.  Again, nothing was wrong with it, but he was charged a service fee.

I believe we tried everything we could to save him some money.  I can only assume he thought that we did not want to provide him service.  Sometimes, it just goes like that, but only on rare occasions.

Terminator

We have experienced the same scenario over and over a 100 times, and then when you do charge them they tell 100 other people what a bad business you are.  You know, it takes the life out of you when it's not fun anymore, this business used to be fun and rewarding, as we had a personal relationship with just about every customer.  But, when others sell for you, you loose that personal contact and they are not your friends anymore.

Drewski notes my cynisisim and frustration of 21 years of appeasing and satisfying retail customers who don't even say thank you any more.  Especially when they believe dealers are all getting rich on their purchase.  

I don't have a yacht, I can't play golf,  I am forever at the store waiting for the next customer to call or the next shopper to come in.  My wife and I have dedicated 60 hours a week, working 6 day weeks and as you can see, it is easy to react like Drewski when you're having one of those days, or weeks.  Well we have been having those days since 9/11 and we try harder to please people.

As suggested here, people still want more for less and everything for FREE.  As evidenced from threads on this forum, they want everything that was included in the sale last week to be included with what the promotional item is this week.  And when they don't get it, they turn and walk and tell 20 people not to go there.  Every dealer reading this is shaking their head yes, but we must maintain decorum and be polite.  Well, I guess I have an edge and there is a reason for it.

Well, Drew, both of you, I have had a bad day too as you can see.  I am honest and I tell the truth.  I was on this board when a shopper was actually shopping us and wanted to buy from me but they didn't.  He just worked me.  And the honest truth, the other dealer grossed 11% after selling expenses (adjusted gross) on his transaction, and he wasn't happy with the service either.  And, while you may find it hard to believe, I am really a very nice guy and I know my stuff, ask mowgli

So,  I put the money down on a new Bahia.

To me this was the clear value choice.  But the last leg of the journey was not very enjoyable.

The dealer we wanted to go with was willing to "match" our best price for the tub.  Then a couple of red flags went off.  Like a $50 per trip for service.  Swapping out the 04 model (the quote was for the 05).  Maximum 1 hour onsite delivery or a charge would be assessed. No 12 months same as cash.  The unfortunate aspect was that this dealer seemed to be very knowledgeable about the tubs and and was willing to make himself available by cell phone every day until 11 pm.

The HotSprings dealer was less of a pleasure to deal with.  We called them up and said we had decided on the Bahia.  I guess the sales guy decided this was the appropriate time to be a jerk.  He then said how bad of a tub the Sundance line was and that Sundance "finds" ways of voiding the warranty.  The sales guy then proceed to state untrue facts about the Bahia.  Fortunately for me, I have high speed internet access and finding the owners manual for the Bahia, I was able to defunct many of the myths that he stated.  I think his last ditch effort was that he faxed me a comparison sheet of the Bahia vs the Caspian vs the Mallorca (the hotspots line of tub).  Saying that if I were shopping for a price point then I should have been looking at the HotSpots line instead of the far superior Tiger River line.  After looking at the comparison sheet between the three tubs, he convinced me that the Bahia was the best value of the three tubs.

So everyone always wants to know the deal that others got.  Your math may very, but:

2005 Bahia delivered with cover
Resin steps
Sun glo lighting option
Extra filter
Sample set of chems
Full size of chems ($90 retail value)
Covermate III (hydraulic lift)
All options installed
12 Months Same as Cash
No service fees for warranty work (trip fee)
NO OZONE

$5395 + tax (6% in Michigan)

Now the waiting begins.  An elusive date of 3 to 7 weeks delivery time.  Which is somewhat okay considering we have to get homeowners association approval for said hot tub.

[frankeyboy]

For the life of me I am really trying to get my bearings right and figure this picture out.  I realize it is the end of the hydraulic lifter that is attached to the pivot point represented by the "nut" anchored to the frame of the lifter.  Is this attached to the spa?  What are you holding next to it?  The tension clip has orange something on it, is that rust or corrosion?  

I am sorry to say this, but I can't make out what is broken.  I don't see the plastic or what appears to be broken and see something that appears to have corrosion on it.  Can you help me out here to see what is broken?

The orange color you see is rust.  Now that the new shock is in place, I realize that the old shock was broken at the other end (not pictured).  I just assumed that the plastic piece laying on the deck was supposed to be covering the rusted tension clip at the top of the shock, but it was acutually from the bottom of the shock which was not visible until the shock was removed.

Frankeyboy

[Vinny]

Regardless of how much a person pays - things like trip charges should be disclosed by the dealer before a person pays for the tub - maybe have it on the sales contract.

J._McD,

You make it sound like we all beat up on dealers when we shop. I personally didn't. I did ask about price and IF I didn't like the price - I walked! I walked out of a Hot Spring dealer because I personally thought what I was getting for MY money wasn't a lot. Is HS a good company - sure it is, but I wanted more bang for my buck.

It is up to the dealer to decided what his or her profit margin is AND if the dealer sells below the profit margin - THAT'S THE DEALERS PROBLEM. Not every customer is a snake nor is every dealer a honest person.

Any salesperson should realize that sometimes money is the issue and yes you need to make a living too, which is why I didn't beat up on any dealer - OK I did beat up on the HS dealer after he was getting nasty with me!

You talk about customer service - I'm in the repair industry too, I repair medical equipment. In my account I have "good customers"  and "bad customers" - I treat my good customers great - I've been at my account now for 15 years. I give services away and I charge when needed. But when I do charge, I'm never questioned. IMO if you have a happy and good customer and they like you - they will always reward you with repeat business and accolades. I have a staff of 3 other people but it's always " talk to Vinny" because I'll make MY customer happy. BTW, they just bought $2,500,000 in equipment BECAUSE OF SERVICE!!! NOT because of a salesperson!  I don't make a penny from the sale, but I look at it as job security.

I think anyone should have free service to their tub and accessories during at least a 6 month period IF the dealer installed the item. I believe Sundance uses it's own cover lifter, at least that's what I was told during my shopping - it was color coordinated with the cover.

I agree that ANY customer can be a pain - I have them too. Sometimes it's best business practice to make them walk away (sales) or to charge them on repeat calls (service) so that you can concentrate on your better customers.

[Wisoki]

I'll take a stab at this. The plastic ends on the gas shock broke because instead of lifting it by one of the handles on the sides, it was left to just SPROING on up, and wobble into position instead of gently raising it up by hand. I have the same lifter on display on a wet demo in my store. When demonstrating the lifter, if I just flop the cover over that baby starts raising up all by itself. If I didn't get hold of it and s l o w  i t  d o w n, I'd be replacing broken shocks every week.

[J._McD]

Regardless of how much a person pays - things like trip charges should be disclosed by the dealer before a person pays for the tub - maybe have it on the sales contract……

I don’t believe my reactions have anything to do with price, but everything with attitude and how people are treated with any level of respect.  I certainly seems like shoppers have no respect for dealers, and their decisions have everything to do with price and what they get.

The dealer we wanted to go with was willing to "match" our best price for the tub.  Then a couple of red flags went off.  Like a $50 per trip for service.....  Maximum 1 hour onsite delivery or a charge would be assessed. No 12 months same as cash.  The unfortunate aspect was that this dealer seemed to be very knowledgeable about the tubs and was willing to make himself available by cell phone every day until 11 pm

I am all about friendly and knowledgeable service and assistance and even provide a 48 to 52 page booklet that we have developed over our 21 years of learning from customers.  Frankeyboy’s cover lifter should never have been broken, nor should it have never corroded within 6 weeks, frankly, or honestly, this is chemical damage and the damage caused by abuse.  I am glad the dealer took care of it for him, and I would have too.  We all make mistakes when things are new and I believe he recognizes that it is not a defective product, but an unfortunate experience that could have been avoided, (teenagers.
But then everybody chimes in with with how it is “unethical” and how the situation should be handled.  
Don't make any judgements until you can speak with experience after walking in their shoes .

Frankly, I was honest with Michigander which was a big RED flag to him.  I even told him deliveries rarely ever take more than 60 minutes, but he was crippled by fear that we would charge him something, another big RED flag.  I have had customers keep the delivery crew for 3 hours once and move the spa to 3 different places.  So he decided not to buy and took my sales agreement to another competing dealer to get still a better deal.  Well, if you read his thread, he wasn’t to happy when he had to wait a week to move a jumper pin.  Again, others chimed in with their opinions.  I am known to be there in 30 minutes in a case like that, again they had criticism for dealers.  

I guess what I am suffering from is the gross lack of respect of the two parties at hand here, the consumer and the dealer who do not trust each other, but WHY?  Is it about cheaper pricing or someone making money, much less that it should be too much money?  

I bid for his business and I didn’t get it.  I matched everything, but I was honest and told him everything.  
So, what did it get me and that takes me back to this thread.

Dealers ARE all about SERVICE.  We don’t get a lot of repeat buyer’s that buy multiple spas, but we do get referrals, that is unless they experience PRODUCT failure and you and I have discussed that before.  Some dealers know what I am talking about, WE get blamed for everything and I am going to be their outspoken voice here in the forum.  They are here to watch and learn, I have a different agenda.

BTW, It is not we collectively, it is some individually.

Anyone else want to knock my head off?  And No Vinny, I don’t think you did.

[Drewski]

NAAAA,

I won't knock your head off anymore -- everyone has a bad day occasionally. At least you admitted it....

Take a soak....

Drewski