GFCI disconnect panel placement?

[guarn3md]

We finally received out Sundance spa - waited 7 weeks!  Now we are ready to hook it up.
Big confusion here in MD about where the GFCI disconnect panel should be placed.  According to Sundance set up directions the panel needs to be atleast 5 feet from the tub.  According to (1) electrician MD code says it should be no more than 5 feet from the tub.  Another agrees with the Sundance manual.  Our neighbors is more than 5 feet; another neighbors is sunk in a deck so the disconnect is under the deck on a beam that is inches from the tub.
Anyone know where to place this panel?
Thanks for your help
Debbie

[J._McD]

common sense applies first and code follows the guide lines of common sense.  The Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter is intended to sense the slightest imbalance of draw tripping the breaker and terminating the electrical supply preventing electrical shock.  

Now using a GFCI on a Hot Tub is common sense and that IS code.  Common sense says you should not be able to reach or touch the GFCI while you are in the tub and that means IF it is closer than 5 feet it would not only be stupid but it lacks common sense.  Although one side of the GFCI is protected, the supply side of the GFCI is HOT and potentially very dangerous.  It should NOT be within 5 feet of the Hot Tub, BUT more than 5 feet away from the spa.  Now that is common sense and I just can not imagine CODE would allow it to be closer than 5 feet.

Call your local municipality electrical inspector.  He has the final word as to what meets code or not.

[bulmer4nc]

We finally received out Sundance spa - waited 7 weeks!  Now we are ready to hook it up.
Big confusion here in MD about where the GFCI disconnect panel should be placed.  According to Sundance set up directions the panel needs to be atleast 5 feet from the tub.  According to (1) electrician MD code says it should be no more than 5 feet from the tub.  Another agrees with the Sundance manual.  Our neighbors is more than 5 feet; another neighbors is sunk in a deck so the disconnect is under the deck on a beam that is inches from the tub.
Anyone know where to place this panel?
Thanks for your help
Debbie

I think it differs based on the building / safety codes for your area.  Our electrician told us for our area (NC) it needs to be further than 5 feet but less than 10 feet so that it can't be reached from within the tub but can be reached quickly in the event of an emergency that would require you to cut the power.  In our case it's probably round 6-7 feet away.

[hymbaw]

J McD is on the money, our code here reads AT LEAST 6' away and within sight of the tub.

[Backpains]

Our Code here in Wyoming reads..the GFCI panel must be no more than 5 feet but no less than 50 feet from the tub

[East_TX_Spa]

I have rarely seen one more than 5' from the spa.

Terminator

[leesweet]

'Here' (Northern Virginia) it says 5', I believe.  We had (on the last spa) and will (on the new one) have the GFCI in the main panel, and a manual disconnect (you pull the 'plug-like' thing out of a box) near the spa.

The point, as was said, was so that there is NO way to pull/touch the disconnect when you are in/anyway near the water, but you can see that the disconnect IS off when you are working on the spa.  (And you can have line of sight to the disconnect box, if you have the GFCI there, and not a manual disconnect pull.)

My impression is that you want to have the little plug do-hickey (that's an electrical techical term !) in your pocket so no one, no how, no when, can re-energize the spa while you have your hands in the innards.

Me, as an EE (just MHO), I'd rather have the GFCI in the protected main breaker panel inside the garage/basement, and a manual pull-plug outside near(er) the spa.  That way the GFCI could last longer, and the entire cable is protected by the GFCI.  But codes and tastes differ, of course.

[tootall]

Big confusion here in MD about where the GFCI disconnect panel should be placed.  According to Sundance set up directions the panel needs to be atleast 5 feet from the tub.  According to (1) electrician MD code says it should be no more than 5 feet from the tub.

ok having aleast five feet and no more then 5 feet is saying the same thing UBC uniform building code states that the disconect can not be more then 5 feet from the tub. it can be closer but not more then 5.

[Chas]

The NEC states that the box is not supposed to be closer than five feet from the water.

Some municipalities will take it farther and ask for six, but again, it is from the actual water, not the edge or cabinet.

It is a 'reach radius' which means that you can have the sub panel or shut-off right next to the tub if you put a shelf, decking or something else which make you have to reach over five feet to get to the elelctrical item.

I have put them right next to the spa under a deck with a hinged access door and had it pass inspection with flying colors.

[Brewman]

Ask you building department, or whoever enforces the electrical code in your area if they are enforcing to the NEC, and if so, what year.  
The current NEC (National Electric Code) states that a form of disconnect must be no closer than 5' to the water (as Chas stated, not the cabinet) no farther away than 50' and within line of sight from the spa.  
Localities may or may not use similar guidelines, but if your inspections office says they are enforcing NEC, then you cannot place your disconnect closer to the water than 5'.  I wouldn't want it any closer, personally.
I think the idea is that you don't want to be able to reach the shutoff while still in the water.
Brewman

[mxw128]

Here in Northern VA, it has to be between 5 and 40 (might actually be 50 ft) from the water's edge, and in line of sight of the spa.  This is consistant with the NEC.  I placed mine inside a screened porch that has LOS to the spa.  What was stated before is correct:  It's a service and safety related issue.  You have to be able to see the spa when you are re-energizing the lines to it. (make sure that noone is in danger of being "lit up" and you don't want anyone in the spa to try and reach the panel to reset a tripped breaker.   I would think that MD would be similar, bit call your local building inspector office.  They are usually happy to fill you in on the details.  Just a piece of advice:  get the person's name who you talk to there.  Although the "code should be the code" I've found that sometimes different inspectors have different interpretations of the NEC and local codes.  They made me run conduit all the way through the basement between the disconnect and my main panel.  Totally ridiculous and nowhere in the code (at least that I can see) But I did it anyway just to avoid issues....

[sparky]

the national electrical code 680.22  states a diconnecting means must be no closer than 5 feet and no further than ten feet,now your local municipality may modify this. this distance is to be  measured from the side wall ,at the shortest distance.also .code 680.41 states a disconnect shall be not less than 5 feet and within sight of the spa.this requirement shall not apply to single family dwellings.
   so i hope this clarifed  everything.i would also suggest you use a licensed electrician.if you fail at this task it may kill you or a loved one.......  

[mxw128]

the national electrical code 680.22  states a diconnecting means must be no closer than 5 feet and no further than ten feet,now your local municipality may modify this. this distance is to be  measured from the side wall ,at the shortest distance.also .code 680.41 states a disconnect shall be not less than 5 feet and within sight of the spa.this requirement shall not apply to single family dwellings.
    so i hope this clarifed  everything.i would also suggest you use a licensed electrician.if you fail at this task it may kill you or a loved one.......  

Sparky,

Are you referncing the 05 NEC?  I don't see a reference for a max disconnect distance in Sec 680.22 Area Lighting, Receptacles and Equipment.  I see verbiage relating to outlets not being less than 10 feet away (680.22 (A)(2) and the requirement to have at least one outlet between 10 and 20 ft (680.22(A)(3).  Just curious if you can point that out for me... I want to become educated to deal with the inspectors.. (the ones that told me I HAD to run conduit between my diconnect and my service panel in my basement!!    )

Thanks!!!  

[Brewman]

There is a way to interpret the code that requires conduit to be run from the service disconnect to the service panel, and also a requirement for an insulated ground wire.  It has to do with pools and spas that have a light in them.  That is what was enforced by the inspector who did my inspections.  No big deal, just a few bucks extra for some schedule 40 conduit, and no romex cable, since it has an uninsulated ground.
Regardless of the NEC, local rules prevail, and one inspector can interpret things differently than another.  
Brewman

[mxw128]

Yeah Brewman, I see where you're coming form there... but when I read the code,  it reads as lights for swimming pools as a separate fixture, not part of an integrated tub package...( but them my interpretation really doesn't matter!!     ) I guess we just have to do what they say..  It wasn't a  cost issue for me, just more of the hassle factor.  I wonder what they would have done if my basement was already finished??