Water Questions

[Vinny]

Although I do understand water chemistry and how it all interacts via my pool - hot water is a different experience!

First I will say that the tub is a month old, so I am about ready to proclaim Chas' law. Also, I do use the Vermonter's way of dosing and I'm using dichlor with my ozonator running 8 hours a day.

As a hot water newbie I was doing good until Friday, now it's a mess.

I had company here on Friday and about 8 or 9 people were in the tub. When I got home from work, I noticed the water was a little hazy so I used the shock dose on Friday night of Spa Essentials Spa Shock Xtra - it has dichlor with I guess some MPS with in it. The water looked great Sat morning except my combined chlorine was reading 3 PPM!

Thinking that this is a correct reading and knowing 7x that would be an awful lot of chlorine, I added a shock dose of MPS. I was busy for the rest of Sat and all day Sun but I figured that the tub was safe since it was "doubled shocked"

Now the dilemma - I opened the tub tonight to find a mess! It's cloudy and I have foam all over. I immediately shocked it with a little more than 3 tablespoons of dichlor.

Thinking on what I've read, I remember - 'let the tub breathe' - so I turned on the jets and air injectors - FOAM!! OK, put in some enzymes for the foam, of course thinking that the chlorine will eat up the enzymes, doesn't seem to work.

Go on line, read through posts here - could be low PH and alkalinity - test, it is low, so add baking soda to bring it up.

So  - I can drain and refill - not a problem but how to deal with heavy bather loads? I was doing good with 4,5 or 6 people but Friday just blew my water away!

What could I have done to prevent it?

Thanks!

[Vinny]

I guess I'll bump up my post with some additional info.

After adjusting PH and shocking with dichlor last night, I tested the water this morning. PH was good (7.2 to 7.4) and with my temps in the tub being 106 there was some free chlorine left (test water turned slightly pink). So my assumption is that the cloudiness is not bacteria otherwise I would have 0 chlorine. Is this a correct assumption?

I did run the pumps about 3 times last night to get the chlorinated water moving around. I shocked it this morning with the Spa Essentials Spa Shock Xtra since it has dichlor, maybe MPS and clarifiers.

Since I'm getting a lot of foam when the air is on, it's cloudy and since it seems not to be bacteria (?), could it be detergents from people’s clothes?

At this point I'm looking at draining so my attempt this morning is for experimental purposes. But, I will be having people over on Sat and would like to avoid this again so soon.

Any info is appreciated!

[wmccall]

Two quick thoughts.  After shocking and dealing with foam, rinse the filters.  And as you mentioned Chas' law, go for it, 9 poeple in a tub for an evening can mess anyone up.

[Gary1911]

What is Chas law? I am gonna watch this post to Vin. I still have some foam and am waiting on my test kit for water hardness, it should be here today. I also am a newbie with about 1 1/2-2  weeks under my belt :-/   Good luck I guess sometimes it would be easier to drain and refill huh?

Gary

[wmccall]

Chas' law is basically everyone should change their water after the first month of ownership.  I tend to thing that most people, even though learning quickly, tend to "overmedicate" at  least at first.

[Gary1911]

Chas' law is basically everyone should change their water after the first month of ownership.  I tend to thing that most people, even though learning quickly, tend to "overmedicate" at  least at first.

Ooooooohhhhhhh

I have tried not to over medicate the only things I have put in were some metal stuff at the start and the dichlor after use.....Seems to be OK but maybe I will get a water change under my belt just to make sure I know whats doin

Thanks for the quick reply

Gary

[Bill_Stevenson]

Well a couple of possibilities seem to present themselves.  First, the heavy load of guests could indicate residual detergent from their swim suits.  So in the future - no swim suits!  Just kidding.

Second, you could have low calcium hardness which would give you foam especially if combined with the other variables.  

Third, no matter what, I would dump and re-fill were it my tub.

Good luck.

Bill

[Vinny]

Well a couple of possibilities seem to present themselves.  First, the heavy load of guests could indicate residual detergent from their swim suits.  So in the future - no swim suits!  Just kidding.

Second, you could have low calcium hardness which would give you foam especially if combined with the other variables.  

Third, no matter what, I would dump and re-fill were it my tub.

Good luck.

Bill

My wife nixed the no swimsuit idea! She also has a problem policing what is weared into the tub. On Friday I came home to 5 teenage boys wearing gym shorts, underwear and who knows what type of hair products!

Calcium hardness should be around 200 PPM or a little more - I did have it too low in the beginning following my dealer's instructions but it should be close to 200 now.

I am dumping tonight, I was more concerned that the cloudiness was due to bacteria, but since I hit the tub with over 10 PPM and the chlorine didn't go to 0 within an hour I feel somewhat confident it's detergent.

Thanks for everyone's advice!

[Drewski]

SORRY Vin, but your problem is probably NOT detergent.

Straight up, like me you have a "high" user load. Most of your problem is probably coming from people's skin oils and hair products.

First, don't sweat it. It's an easy fix. BUT, a water change is probably a good idea, just to get things started right.

With your user load, you need to wash the filters once per week. Your biggest problem is suspended stuff in the water that's not coming out. You can have perfect chemistry, but unless it's filtered out, it stays in.

So, here's my suggestion. First, start with clean water. Balance the calcium and Ph. Add dichlor to bring up your levels.

BEFORE people come over, shock. This will bring up your available chlorine. Remember, as with your pool, when the top's off, the sun burns chlorine. Don't shock early in the morning, leave the cover off all day and then get people in the tub.

After the tub is used, LIGHTLY shock again. Also, add a polymer based "clarifying agent" (usually the blue stuff), about 2 caps for a tub your size. Let the tub run for one cycle, then stand open for about 30 minutes.

This regime should work for you. The problem you are having is one of "equilibrium," where the water chemistry suddenly gets tasked beyond its limits and you wake up with "bad" water.

Remember, pulling and cleaning the filters weekly, even if they don't "look" dirty, is the key. The polymer will cause everything suspended in the water to "clump" and filter out. Unless the filters stay clean, the water simply goes through the by-passes on the bottom of your tub.

Good Luck bro, post questions if you have them…

Drewski

 

[Gary1911]

SORRY Vin, but your problem is probably NOT detergent.

Straight up, like me you have a "high" user load. Most of your problem is probably coming from people's skin oils and hair products.

First, don't sweat it. It's an easy fix. BUT, a water change is probably a good idea, just to get things started right.

With your user load, you need to wash the filters once per week. Your biggest problem is suspended stuff in the water that's not coming out. You can have perfect chemistry, but unless it's filtered out, it stays in.

So, here's my suggestion. First, start with clean water. Balance the calcium and Ph. Add dichlor to bring up your levels.

BEFORE people come over, shock. This will bring up your available chlorine. Remember, as with your pool, when the top's off, the sun burns chlorine. Don't shock early in the morning, leave the cover off all day and then get people in the tub.

After the tub is used, LIGHTLY shock again. Also, add a polymer based "clarifying agent" (usually the blue stuff), about 2 caps for a tub your size. Let the tub run for one cycle, then stand open for about 30 minutes.

This regime should work for you. The problem you are having is one of "equilibrium," where the water chemistry suddenly gets tasked beyond its limits and you wake up with "bad" water.

Remember, pulling and cleaning the filters weekly, even if they don't "look" dirty, is the key. The polymer will cause everything suspended in the water to "clump" and filter out. Unless the filters stay clean, the water simply goes through the by-passes on the bottom of your tub.

Good Luck bro, post questions if you have them…

Drewski

   

Great post !  Hey Drewski are just rinsing your filters or do you some kinda cleaner? I rinsed mine a few days ago and its very hard to get all the pleats is there a better way?  

Thanks!

Gary

[Vinny]

Thanks Drewski,

As I said, it took me by surprise.

I am dumping tonight, and I have been in the short while I've owned the tub changing out the filters every week and half but that's with the 4 of us using the tub.

I'll stop tonight and get clarifier for Saturday and keep up on the chlorine on Sat as they use it. I will also change the filters out on Sunday to get rid of the gunk!

Thanks Again!

Vinny

[Drewski]

Great post !  Hey Drewski are just rinsing your filters or do you some kinda cleaner? I rinsed mine a few days ago and its very hard to get all the pleats is there a better way?  

Thanks!

Gary

Thanks Gary!

I'd recommend this product available at most Home Depot stores:



It's better than the Lowes stuff in that it creates NO foam after the filters are re-installed. It also cleans the heck out of them. I spray, then hose. Some people soak overnight and then hose. I'm just too impatient.  

Good Luck...

Drewski

[wmccall]

Thanks Gary!

I'd recommend this product available at most Home Depot stores:

It's better than the Lowes stuff in that it creates NO foam after the filters are re-installed. It also cleans the heck out of them. I spray, then hose. Some people soak overnight and then hose. I'm just too impatient.  

Drewski, I may ask you about that stuff again in the fall.  I just bought two bottles of a new product. (new for me)  My dealer had something similar, but dropped it. They line he picked up sprays on real thick and is real hard to rinse out.  I'll use what I just bought and then try that stuff.


PS - Once again, I went to QUOTE your message, and I accidently hit MODIFY.  I didn't actually change the content of your message.  What character is it that always says, " I hate it when I do that?"  I need to adopt that as my motto.

[Rayman]

GET SMART

[Drewski]

GET SMART

OK, any suggestions how?  

Drewski