Wet Test for a Newbie ??

[msgreek]

This forum is fantastic!  There is so much help and product information but now my head is spinning more than before finding this site.  To keep my sanity I will stick to either Sundance’s Maxxus or Cameo OR Jacuzzi’s 365 or 385.  I’m figuring 500-1000 dollars difference will not bury me.
My question is how can I do a wet test on a specific model if a dealer only has one model filled?  Is it proper to ask the dealer to fill a spa or should I just call around for the model already filled?  Sorry for what might be an adolescent question but I’m a total newbie with spas.
Common sense is telling me the most important features are the overall fit of the individual seats, the jet’s functioning or affects and lastly the warranty.  My original concern is if either the Jacuzzi or Sundance had multiple consumer complaints?  Any suggestion would be welcome.  
Thank you.

[frankeyboy]

A wet test is a must.  Before I wet tested I thought that I wanted a lounger and really was impressed by the Hot springs moto massage.  After wet testing the Hot springs Envoy I immediately decided that I did not want a lounger, and was not really impressed with the moto massager.  Its just a matter of personal preference.  Some people can't live without the moto massager, but for me I can take or leave it.  There is a hot springs dealer about 1 mile from my house, but they did not have an envoy for wet testing.  Fortunately there is another hot springs dealer about 45 minutes from my house that had the Envoy wet.  The dealer had no problem with me going across town for a wet test.  If you are going to spend 8000 or more on a tub don't be shy about insisting on a wet test.  Don't make the mistake of not wet testing.  I had my heart set on the Envoy until I wet tested.  I ended up getting the sundance majesta because I loved the center foot massager and the cool down seating.  The wife liked the waterfall and lighting, and when they mentioned the aroma therapy feature there was no changing her mind.  If your dealer does not have the model you want wet, then look for another dealer who has it.  Even if it is a couple hour drive, it will be worth the trip.

Frankeyboy

[msgreek]

Frankeyboy,
Thank you very much for the information.  It seems logical to spend the extra time driving to a location for a wet-test on a specific model.  I just wasn't sure if the dealer wouild fill the model if on display empty.  It would probably be a better selling point if a dealer had more than one wet-tester  .
Guess I'll be driving around the county today.

[tonyp]

I had my heart set on theHS  Envoy but my local dealer didn't have it filled and wouldn't fill it when I asked claiming that their other HS tubs were similar.  Testing the other tubs only made me more convinced that the Envoy was the one.  Found a dealer that had one filled and tested it there.  Ended up buying it there as well.  BTW it was not like the other tubs - it was much better for us.

[leesweet]

Heh. Bottom line response:  If *that* spa is *the same* or *so similar* to *this* one, as you claim,, then why does your manufacturer waste so much money making it, then?  Hm?  

If location and other things suit, I'd definitely give your money to the dealer that actually wants to help you decide by testing the one you want!

[Lori]

When I was shopping, two of the dealers filled tubs (that weren't filled when I first went in) to let me test the models I was really, seriously interested in!  I would ask, first, the worst they can do is tell you no.

None of my dealers told me no!

[J._McD]

Help me out here,  :-/  This is a general reflection of the many threads on this board recently.  What is it that sellers can do for consumers to earn your trust and business, and consumers what can you do for sellers to help them earn your consideration.

A dealer with a business overhead to support two store locations 30 minutes apart with employee payroll and 16 different models on display, with each store having 2 of the 4 most popular models available for wet testing, representing one with a lounge and one without a lounge at each store.  That leaves 14 models with out water that over the year someone is interested in each model some more than others.

Can you see my problem here.  As a consumer, what do you want a dealer to do?  

Of course, you are going to say that you would like to wet test the particular model that you are interested in and the next shopper would as well, like to wet test again a different model.  

All models would have to rotate as each shopper chooses to wet test a different model every day.

Yet you all, shop without a committment to buy, because you have not wet tested all of the manufacturers, or the different models of those manufacturers that you THINK you may have an interest in.   :-/

OH YES, we all want the cheapest or most competetive price with all the extras free and NOT included in the price, delivered with everything installed and of course with both excellent and superior service on demand,

And if not attended to as expected, you chastize the dealers operation with a posting of regret about how you are handled and or offended, and you send a memo off to the owner to achieve personal satisfaction and gratification.

No wonder consumers don't like the profit mongering sellers who are sometimes referred to as something less than respectable human beings that can not be trusted and who are looking to profit excessively on a sale.

While the dealers are trying to appeal to the shopping consumers to represent quality goods, fair pricing, and superior and considerate customer service.

As I read these posts, I am perplexed to understand how any consumer could or would ever consider being a seller in this type of business.  Much less for that matter, why any dealer wants to be in this business, oh my gosh I almost forgot, the excessive profits and the unending love of taking the indignant and abusive attitudes of self centered and untrusting individuals.  WOW.

Dealers are vilified by shopping consumers here on this board and new shopping consumers are led to believe this is the natural way of doing business.

No wonder so many of the dealers come in and go out of business as they do while manufacturers threaten them with extinction and termination unless they get their marketshare.  I guess that makes this a dog eat dog type of business that has little respect for each other.

I wish I could make it different, but how could that be done?  

[msgreek]

J. McD
    Unfortunately, I do not have the time to read your post again just to confirm my original opinion of your viewpoint.  As a very successful 20-year self employed individual I often reflect back on my business strategies.  My first priority was NOT only how to bring in my customers but most importantly how to keep their business or attaining referrals.  My product’s consumer cost is much less than the dollar amount of a spa therefore dealt with volume in customers count.  
    No need for complaint about overhead cost, payroll or time traveling to and from other spa locations owned.  I too worked 70 hours weekly, covering for employees who rather have a 3-day weekend rather than working on a holiday, then dealing with customers asking for everything under the sun.  
    The formula for a successful spa dealer should be pretty clear.  When the consumer purchases an item with an average price of $6,000 or more the consumer has all due right not only to be selective but also satisfied with their ultimate decision.  This is especially more difficult since the consumer knows once a spa is purchased it cannot be returned.
    Finally, if the consumer tries to purchase something at a better price I’m positive YOU would do the SAME if given the opportunity.   P.S…..my spa salesperson went the extra yard and was very happy to fill the unit I was interested in.  
    Guess what J. McD; today I paid the $9,000 cash for the unit.  Not only am I very happy with my selection in the spa but also acknowledge without the customer service from the salesperson I would still be confused and without a spa.   Not only was my spa decision very easy but I will most definitely refer family and friends to the same salesperson.  
    I am truly sorry if I misunderstood your post but if I didn’t then perhaps you should reconcile your reasoning for referring to a consumer based business.  

[msgreek]

Ok…back to the spa issue  

    Thanks to everyone who helped with strategies and information for my spa purchase.  I did call around to find a dealer with a wet-test for the models of interest.  As luck had it today my local spa dealer was more than happy to accommodate me with Jacuzzi’s 385 model.  The moment I got in the unit I knew it was the one.  The jets were in perfect position; multi-foot jets, hamstring, and wrist jets – wow!  
    Again, thanks so much to everyone who helped with my confusion.  I will still continue reading this forum but this time for other spa related info like water chemicals, water temps and of course where to find the rubber duckies.  
    Wishing a great 4th of July to everyone…. (too bad my spa won’t be delivered till July 14)

[wmccall]

Congrats,  It is our hope and the belief of many that wet testing allows you to buy with the confidence of knowing that you got something that is right for you. For you, the hard part is over, and the rest is easy. We will welcome hearing all that you have to say about your new Jacuzzi.

[obi wan]

wet test is a must!
its unfortunate that a dealer you spoke with would not fill the tub you wanted to test. kinda like a car dealer not wanting to put gas in a car, so you could drive it......

i can understand, to a point, a dealer wanting to make sure you are a serious buyer before going to a lot of trouble, but wouldn't the fact that some one says they want to wet test the tub, show they are serious?

this is for the dealers on the board...
out of curiousity, do you have a lot of people actually wet test who are not serious shoppers? is filling a tub, with chems of course, a costly process? i remember seeing an older post that some one uses a pump to move water from one spa to another for wet testing......
from other hotly debated posts here, several dealers have referred to the fact, that the retail price has long term service needs built in.this is not neccessarily a bad thing, just business.
my buisiness also takes into acct the long term service needs, as well as general overhead, trucks, etc... all these factors determine our retail prices. i am not santa clause and i dont expect a tub dealer to be.
as a consumer, there some very valid points brought up here. i spent $8k on my tub. that a lot of $, so i wanted to be absolutely sure i got the right tub for me (and the wife of course).

its up to you and i, as consumers, to decide if we want to pay the price for an item that we want. period. its my money. if i want to spend 8k on a spa, i will research it thoroughly, and a wet test is a must. if i want to spend $5k on a piece of canvas that an "artist" flung handfuls of his own @&^% on, i can do that to. price is relative to value. to each his own. i have a good friend who told me he thought i must have lost my mind, to spend what i did for my tub, and of course pointed out that home depot has one for only $3995?!. thats his choice. i made mine, spent the money, and would do it all over again....

if you want a 32" regular tv, walmart has an off brand for $279. sony still sells a 32" for $600-700. you can buy anything in between, pricewise. why? QUALITY!
the spa industry should be the same way.
there will always be some disreputable dealer around, as in any other industry, but probably not long term. as with any biz, if you consistently screw the public, the public will catch on, and you biz will go away. (some do take longer than others)

CONGRATS ON YOUR DECISION! happy soaking.....

[bosco0633]

J.MCD I  never looked at it in the shoes of a dealer before.  I think as a consumer, I want the best deal and will pay the one that gives me the best service and deal.  Sometimes you have to settle on best service and a little higher price.
   I guess when you pay 5 to 10k on a product there is a sense of security knowing that you really went out of your way to get the best price.  
   You cant take offence or take it personal here, its the type of employment you chose for yourselelf.  Sales guys are always viewed as shady people that always have a gimic and are never honest.  It is like lawyers, how many people can say something positive about them.  They are all painted with the same brush.  
    What you are asking ultimately is how can one change a consumers perception.  The problem is that poor aggressive sales tactics in the past have created the reputation that people in your type of business have.  Dishonest sales people making people feel insecure about their purchase have created this sense of distrust that you are feeling.
    Now you are effected by this backlash of consumers pushing you as far as they can.  We want to wet test, we want to know everything about the product before we purchase.  This way we go in and say, this is what I want and this is what I know I have to pay.
    I bet that you can tell the difference between a consumer that knows nothing and one that knows everything.  I would assume as a sales person, you would treat the two a little different.  You would have to.  After spending over a year testing and researching, I went in and knew exactly how far to push and the sales guy did not even have to work for the sale.
     I really wish that things could be different for you.  I think it is unfair that good people and owners are chastised as much as they are.  Its funny, I just had a little arguement with someone on here the other day.  I complained that I thought that it was unfair to post negative feedback about a dealer as a new member of this forum.  I was chastised and eventually the post was erased.  
    So your question, what can be done.  You cant do much, just keep aiming to please without compromising your business.  A sale helps, but dont be affraid to pass if you feel a consumer is pushing to much.  If somebody wants it bad enough they will get it.  We as consumers have to learn that there are limits.  It would be nice to see dealers come onside with one another and offer fair competitive pricing standard accross the board in one particular area.  

Where I am from I could have bought a sundance maxxus for 4100can cheaper from a dealer just outside of my city.  Things like this make it difficult to trust someone.

Just my thoughts, I feel your pain.  Thanks for a different look on things.

[drewstar]

Help me out here,  :-/  This is a general reflection of the many threads on this board recently.  What is it that sellers can do for consumers to earn your trust and business, and consumers what can you do for sellers to help them earn your consideration.

A dealer with a business overhead to support two store locations 30 minutes apart with employee payroll and 16 different models on display, with each store having 2 of the 4 most popular models available for wet testing, representing one with a lounge and one without a lounge at each store.  That leaves 14 models with out water that over the year someone is interested in each model some more than others.

Can you see my problem here.  As a consumer, what do you want a dealer to do?  

Of course, you are going to say that you would like to wet test the particular model that you are interested in and the next shopper would as well, like to wet test again a different model.  

All models would have to rotate as each shopper chooses to wet test a different model every day.

Yet you all, shop without a committment to buy, because you have not wet tested all of the manufacturers, or the different models of those manufacturers that you THINK you may have an interest in.   :-/

 OH YES, we all want the cheapest or most competetive price with all the extras free and NOT included in the price, delivered with everything installed and of course with both excellent and superior service on demand,

And if not attended to as expected, you chastize the dealers operation with a posting of regret about how you are handled and or offended, and you send a memo off to the owner to achieve personal satisfaction and gratification.

No wonder consumers don't like the profit mongering sellers who are sometimes referred to as something less than respectable human beings that can not be trusted and who are looking to profit excessively on a sale.

While the dealers are trying to appeal to the shopping consumers to represent quality goods, fair pricing, and superior and considerate customer service.

As I read these posts, I am perplexed to understand how any consumer could or would ever consider being a seller in this type of business.  Much less for that matter, why any dealer wants to be in this business, oh my gosh I almost forgot, the excessive profits and the unending love of taking the indignant and abusive attitudes of self centered and untrusting individuals.  WOW.

Dealers are vilified by shopping consumers here on this board and new shopping consumers are led to believe this is the natural way of doing business.

No wonder so many of the dealers come in and go out of business as they do while manufacturers threaten them with extinction and termination unless they get their marketshare.  I guess that makes this a dog eat dog type of business that has little respect for each other.

I wish I could make it different, but how could that be done?  

I don't understand the issue here J_McD.    Are you frustrated because consumers want to test the product? I'm confused because the dealer mantra  on these boards are "Wet test  Wet test, Wet Test".  ?  Do  you think otherwise?  

Yes, consumers want to get the deal possible. They want to shop around and do price comparisions. Something that is more difficult to do in the Spa industry than in other markets.  Do you not understand this desire? Do you think it's unjustified?


Chasitizing owners? Here's a comment that I belilve is directly poised at me.  I don't belive I chastized a  dealer.  I did however post my frustration with the dealer,   and I belive done so fairly.  I did so  as many dealers read these posts and wanted to know if they felt I was out of line.
As a dealer do you think my thread was out of line. If you were the dealer in question, what would you have done? What do you honestly think of  that thread?

What do you think the purpose of this board is?

I find it to be open exchange of hot tub topics that includes both consumers,   and dealers, owners and owners to be. Almost everything is fair game.  This board is a gold mine for both consumers to educated themselves and learn about the product and compare prices and services offered.   The dynamics of this board are  process, not an answer. Some of the info is great, some of the issues are straight forward. But there is  a lot of signal vs Noise here. But that's the nature of these boards.

As a dealer I think you would be drooling over the info and read between the lines here.  You're getting honest straignt forward info from the comsumer. Some corporations pay analysist  huge money to get info like this.

However, the trick is to figure out how you as a dealer can best meet the wants and desires of the marketplace.  


Several times though out this board you've asked "What do you want?"   I've answered that  and many other posters have too. YOu come back and reply "Well I can't do all that."  Ok.  But you asked.

[fatman]

drewstar, I agree with every word of your post. "Wet test" seems to be the working motto of this board so when someone complains about having to fill a tub........it sounds like somebody needs to spend some serious time IN the tub.  If I went to a car dealership and the dealer told me to test drive a different car than the one I was looking at saying "Don't worry, it drives the same as the one you want", I would just walk away and purposely spread negative bad word of mouth.  Sometimes making a living by way of customer service isn't easy.......but is it really that difficult to fill a tub with water???

[drewstar]

I can understand how it's not easy or cost effective to have every single tub available, but if i was a dealer, I'd work hard to keep the most popular tubs available pluys maybe a small rotation of lesser tubs. and work with a customer.  IF the tub they wanted wasn't filled,  I could direct them to another tub (salesman ship), or work with them to have them come back and have the tub ready.

I bet many customers don't come back to JMcD  if the tub wasn't ready, because maybe they are picking up from you that you think it's a pain in the butt?

Hell, find a way to make em come back for the wet test and get them be excited by it. find a way to get the customer committed to you and your shop. I mean for crying out loud, isn't that the art  of the deal?  Finding out how to balance all that, delight the customer and make a profit is the goal.  

I almost get from J_McD  this kind of thing "You know the spa buisness would be ok  if it wasn't for all theses  damn customers"

In all honestly J_McD,. that's the impression I get from you  and your post in the forum. I sincerly Don't mean to offend, but thats the truth. Take it for what its worth. just my opinon.