more power? arrg... arrg..ARRG..

[obi wan]

this is very "tub related" so here goes....
this is for anyone who is adding/going to add, a spa to existing home, who is having to run new wiring. give some thought to having the "electrician" (yourself, spouse, or even hired hand) run a 2nd line with it. myself, i ran another 50 amp line and put in a 20-amp and 3 10-amp breakers in a separate subpanel.
for example:
it can be used for many things like plugging in a boombox, a mixer, smothie maker, or other kitchen appliance needed to make "beverages". why go back and forth to the house for drinks? you will need a serving area near/ by the tub of course. now you even have a place to plug in your tools to build the serving area.....or weedeater, etc....
i will use this supply for more lighting and a fountain (in the near future, i'm already using all 29 hrs in each day..... if i could figure out how to get more hours, i could get more thing done ....) i already have a 10'x12' shed in the back corner that CURRENTLY doesn't have power run to it. i may be SHOCKED to see what is in there once i have interior lighting.....
i was my own electrician so the only cost for me was more wire and another box, but the additional labor should be nominal if you're paying some one.
after spending 6-12k on your own piece of "spatopia", you wouldn't want to sit in the tub and think, now, if i only had "fill in the blank", and a place to plug it in.......
** you must of course ensure your main service panel can handle the load. i had to upgrade my 100 amp service panel for the new tub, so i went up to a 200 amp panel.

[spaman--]

I smell something burning!Just kidding.LOL...Isn't there some bulding code that requires you to do such work?Did you have to pull a permit?I have known people who have installed their hottubs with extra outlets,when they went to sell their house there had to be a permit in place,if there was no permit they had to pull a permit, and the building codes had changed so the work had to be redone before the sale of the house could continue.Just curious as to your local codes.

[BobRex]

Running extra lines is a good idea, but keep in mind that code says any outlets have to be 10 ft from the tub.
My inspector made me remove an outlet that was 7ft away - I'll put it back in someday when nobody's looking  

[Brewman]

Please tell me that when you put in this 200 amp panel that you didn't increase the main breaker rating to 200 amps unless you upgraded your feed to 200 amp service.  
I'm curious about the permit as well.  

Brewman

[obi wan]

a good friend is a manster electrician. he helped change the main service panel. that was the only permit, he got it for me, and i belive itwas $45. code here in va beach says no permit required for "temporary structures", defined as not having a concrete foundation, slab or footings. my tub sits on a mini-deck(8'square) which is sitting on 9 dek blocks. for that matter, my 10'x12' shed (max size with no permit required) is sitting on 14 dek blocks, so it is also a "temporary structure".
you have a great point though..... each city is different so dont forget to check on required permits.    

[spaman--]

a good friend is a manster electrician. he helped change the main service panel. that was the only permit, he got it for me, and i belive itwas $45. code here in va beach says no permit required for "temporary structures", defined as not having a concrete foundation, slab or footings. my tub sits on a mini-deck(8'square) which is sitting on 9 dek blocks. for that matter, my 10'x12' shed (max size with no permit required) is sitting on 14 dek blocks, so it is also a "temporary structure".
you have a great point though..... each city is different so dont forget to check on required permits.    

There still may be a requirement for a permit on the electrical you added as well as the hottub electrical.I would check it out or not worry about until you go to sell your house,then you have the option to get the permit or yank it out!If it requires a permit tere's the extra assurance that everything is up to code.Here in Colorado it is illegal to install a spa that is not UL or ETL listed,the whole unit must be listed as a whole not just the componants.

[Brewman]

Here in Colorado it is illegal to install a spa that is not UL or ETL listed,the whole unit must be listed as a whole not just the componants.

I guess there are a few illegally installed spas in Colorado, then.  Probably very few.

[spaman--]

 I guess there are a few illegally installed spas in Colorado, then.  Probably very few.

I am training my golden retriever to sniff out non ETL listed spas,next we are working on non nspi and ansi comliant spas.Wierd he always ends up 30 miles up north.

[Vinny]

my tub sits on a mini-deck(8'square) which is sitting on 9 dek blocks. for that matter, my 10'x12' shed (max size with no permit required) is sitting on 14 dek blocks, so it is also a "temporary structure".
you have a great point though..... each city is different so dont forget to check on required permits.    

I certainly over did my hot tub deck but how do you know that 9 dek blocks are capable of holding that type of weight and won't shift over time? I have 6 concrete footings 36" deep to carry that weight, my township would have required 4 footings even if it was a concrete slab.

The chief inspector questioned me about putting that weight onto a deck and I explained to him I was designing the deck for 150 PSF and had about 2000 lbs left over on a 64 sq ft deck (8x8 ). He was happy to hear that all that weight was being accounted for.

I'm just curious based on my VERY LIMITED experience!

Thanks!

[obi wan]

for the tub, i did minor grading(8 miles from the oceanfront means everything is very flat)then dug out about 5" filled with sand and laid and levelled 18"square patio blocks(they are flush with grade).dek bloks rest on top of them. joists are 2x10 with solid 2x4 for decking. winters are very mild, so frost heave is not an issue. spoke with a deck builder, told him it was 500 gals, so water approx 4500lbs, and tub dry weighs approx 800lbs. showed him my plans. he said should be fine as long as it is on grade.
time will tell.....already made it thru the rainy,VERY RAINY, (read lots of mosquitos) spring and no problems at all. just finally installed the gazebo 2 weeks ago, and everything thing is level, all the way around.

[johnvb]

Also make sure all circuits are GFIC protected

[Cola]

A second line is great but unless you are setting up a shed with some heavy duty power tools, a #10 30 amp line is lots.  You don't have to run a fifty amp line for a 20 and three 10's.  By the way, the 10 on the front of the breaker means 10 kaic, this is the interupting capacity.  As for a 200 amp feed to the house, don't waste your money.  If the day comes that you trip your 100 amp breaker (and you better have a big house with a lotta stuff running), you will have time to worry about it then.  If this ever did happen, you will probably realize that you ran the A/C, stove, electric drier and electric hot water heater and some big a** artesian tub with all 5 pumps going insane while the pool pump is runing and Chevy Chase did your Christmas lights.  Most electrical firms will give you a price for the upgrade rather than advice on whether or not you need it.  One of the owners at our shop worked for a company during his apprentice years in the early 80's that did an automatic service upgrade for anybody installing a new A/C unit if they had a 60 amp service (common back then).  The thing is the A/C only draws 12 amps.  You could go out and buy a new gas hot water tank and gas drier and save money running them for the price of the damn service upgrade.  

Another consideration
4.16 amps at 240 volt is one kW hour.  This cost you 10 to 12 cents per hour.  If you were running 100 amps for any appreciable amount of time, that works out to about $3.00 per hour if you were actually running 100 amps.  $150.00 hydro bill / 720 hours in a month.  Thats 21 cents per hour.  So an average draw for a whole house is probably about 8 amps.  You will be ok with 100 amps
So has anyone ever had there 100 amp breaker trip?
Steve

[drewstar]

As for a 200 amp feed to the house, don't waste your money.

Huh. My house has 400 amp service; 2,  200 amp panels once for each floor of the house (split level house, lower level was originally an in-law house)  with the pool, hot tub, electric stove, dryer, ac, heat (back up. primary =pellets),  and all the other appliances and lights  I kinda worried if I'd ever have a problem. You seem to think 100 amp is more than sufficent? That's reassuing to me.


Electrical lines to the sheds are great and always come in handy.  I highly recomend doing it.  Having spot lights, and bug zappers out on the shed are great, plus as mentioned, weed wackers, hedge trimmers, interoir shed lights is wonderful.

[Perk1]

My township required a permit for the electrical.  I had to install a 'convenience' plug not less than 10 feet but not more than 20 feet from the tub.  It has come in very handy.

And another thing to remember when calculating the weight of the spa it is important to add the average weight of 4 adults to the mix since your spa wont be sitting there with just water in it for very long!!!  If you get big Aunt Betty and her new boyfriend Clyde sitting in there and it adds a little weight...LOL!!!

[obi wan]

i plan on running the 20amp and 1 -10amp to the shed, as it will will have a 5 hp air compressor, and many tools. the other 2 are for general outdoor use....
as to the 200 amp feed, my buddy is a master electrician with 18 yrs exp, at a local shipyard, and never mentioned that i needed to upgrade the feed. its only 2200 sq ft house, we just had 12 people over for fathers day, had the tub on, both ovens, tabletop warming trays, etc. didn't have a problem.....