Another Water Quality Question

[FLTUB]

I am one of those people that is always lurking in the background reading and trying to learn from all of you.  I have tried to read through old post to answer this question but not having much luck so thought I would post.  

Have a SA Euphoria Marquis (400 gallons)  Have had it filled and running for two weeks.  Have shocked it once a week and  I am using the spa frog system that came with the spa.  I have the Bromine opened all the way (setting six).  Our PH is very high here...it is PH 8 right out of the tap.  I have been adding what the dealer gave me to get the PH down.  Ph is now 7.8 and Total Alkalinity is between 120 and 180.  With the bromine opened all the way my reading is still between 0 and 1.  The water has a haze to it...not clear like many on here speak about.  I am new at this so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  What would you experienced folks be doing next if you were in my position?  All suggestions welcome.  

[Michelle]

Hello Mr. FLTUB
We have the same problem with our Epic.
We kept upping the frog bromine setting, it seemed like it had bromine in it still.  Well at first it did and shocking with dichlor jacked up the reading of both at the same time.  Hubby took out the bromine cartridge the other day and it seemed like it was half full but sounded like liquid.  Turns out the top 1/3 of the thing hold air which is probably to make it float but it fills with water in the inline system.  We are thinking of filling the empty cartridges but I need to find some very high percentage bromine.  The frog cartridges are about $12.00 Cad. for 150 grams (1/3 pound) unit.  I am sure that we can get bromine for cheaper.  We have been adding Dichlor every couple days just to keep a bit of sanitiser residual showing.
Later

[aaahhh]

FLTUB

I have the standard Euphoria and I do not use the frog system. My dealer set me up on soft soak. They felt it was the best for my water. But I see myself here. A little of this and a touch of that combined with who knows what is in your spa from the factory.

You asked what would I do in your position.

Start over, take a water sample from the water source you use to fill your spa. Take a water sample from your spa. Get to your dealer for a expert opinion on your water.

You just might find yourself draining your spa and cleaning the surface, refilling and starting fresh with a little more knowledge.

This is what I did and and I am better off today because of it. Fortunetly I have a great dealer that hepled me through this frustraighting time.

[Soakin]

...I am using the spa frog system that came with the spa.  I have the Bromine opened all the way (setting six).  Our PH is very high here...it is PH 8 right out of the tap.  I have been adding what the dealer gave me to get the PH down.  Ph is now 7.8 and Total Alkalinity is between 120 and 180.  With the bromine opened all the way my reading is still between 0 and 1.  The water has a haze to it...  

Cloudy water is most often associated with inadequate sanitation, but water balance (pH, TA, Hardness, metals) can also affect it. You definitely shouldn't need to be running a feeder wide open on a normal basis, so I'd focus on sanitation first.  I am not familiar with the Marquis frog system, but most bromine feeders require an initial dose of sodium bromide to establish a reserve.  Is that in?  If not, check your manual, Frog instruction sheet, or dealer to see if it is needed.

If that isn't the problem,  I'd try a 2-3 TBS dichlor shock treatment, and see if you still have a residual of 1ppm or better the next day.   If not, you probably have something growing in the tub, so keep dosing until you clean it up and are able to maintain a residual.  Then figure out the feeder problem.  Regarding your regular shock routine: you didn't state what you are using or the dose.  Depending on your usage, you may need to shock more frequently.

It sounds like your pH is starting to come down.  I'd try to get it down further to 7.2-7.5.  I know that chlorine works better at lower pH, I'm not sure about bromine.  Other things to consider are hardness levels, metals, and other contaminants.  If you don't have a stain/scale preventer in, I'd add that.  If increased sanitation doesn't clear up the water, you can also try a double dose of clarifier, followed by a filter cleaning.

I personally would keep experimenting with this fill for a little while to try to get a handle on maintenace, but then take aaahhh's advice and follow Chas' law --change the water after the first month.   Good luck!

[Bill_Stevenson]

Is your tub water exposed to direct sunlight?  If so the bromine could be destroyed.  Go to www.rhtub.com and find the Vermonter's water treatment program.  

[FLTUB]

 If that isn't the problem,  I'd try a 2-3 TBS dichlor shock treatment, and see if you still have a residual of 1ppm or better the next day.   If not, you probably have something growing in the tub, so keep dosing until you clean it up and are able to maintain a residual.  Then figure out the feeder problem.  Regarding your regular shock routine: you didn't state what you are using or the dose.  Depending on your usage, you may need to shock more frequently.

I think the shock may be my problem.  We have had the spa two weeks, it has been used about 6 times and has been shocked twice.  I didn't know I should shock after each use.  Tonight I put 4 oz of shock in.  How much should you put in after each use?  I had the water tested by the dealer today and they recommended the shock and a few other chemical fixes.  I will test it again in the morning and see hwo it is and bring htem another sample soon.

Thanks for the advice!

[Soakin]

Whoa, FLTUB!  It looks like we need to get on the same page!  4 oz of Dichlor is a lot, 4 oz of MPS is a quite a bit -- so I hope whatever you are shocking with is less concentrated.

The advantage of a bromine feeder is that you shouldn't have to shock/sanitize with each use.  Two shock treatments in two weeks/6 uses should be plenty if you had enough sanitizer in the system on a regular basis.  I wasn't suggesting that you need to shock after each use, rather recommending a dichlor treatment to try to clean up anything that might be growing, oxidize any bromamines, and get you back to a starting point for developing a routine with your bromine system that doesn't require running the feeder wide open all the time.  Hopefully your dealer was able to address this for you.

I think you are better off sticking with one set of advice at a time, especially if some of it is conflicting.  I'd go with what your dealer is recommending, and ask him/her for clarification if you still aren't clear on something.  If that still doesn't work, try here again.  Good luck, and let us know the final solution!

[spahappy]

Most spas are water tested at the factory and often times there may be a bit of water left in the spa. All kinds of things may have started growing in there during the time the tub was tested and the water evaporated.

Once you added water and heated it back up some of these bugs may have started growing and multiplying again. You may be fighting  bacteria left from the factory water test and not what has been introduced by the soakers in your family.

Get some bromine concentrate and super brominate with about twice the amount the directions call for, based on the gallons your spa holds.

Run your jets on high for 10 to 20 minutes with the air off. You may have to treat the water with a small amount of bromine concentrate after each use until the frog catches up. Hope this helps...


Spahappy

[Revlis]

spahappy, I'm wondering if that's what I'm running into.  Thankfully the water stays fairly clear.

Thanks for all the great replies to this thread.  Just keeps me learning.........