Why is it so hard to find prices online?

[Jay_M]

Hi,

I'm new here.. I've been looking for a spa for a few weeks, and money is an issue!

I want quality at a good price.  Sometimes that means shopping around.  For most things I buy ( Cars, TVs, computers, pro audio gear)  I can find the brand and model I want for much less than retail.  

When looking for a spa prices are very hard to find.  Nothing will ruin the spa experience more than knowing I paid too much!

How do you haggle with a dealer when you don't even know the MSRP?

When I buy a car, I find the car I want, get their best price, then I go hame and call every dealer I am willing to drive to and ask for their lowest price.  Some hang up on me, some give me a terrible price, but a few give me a good price.

Then I take that price to the dealer who gave me the test drive and give them the opportunity to beat it.

Do I need to do this to buy a spa??

Will any dealer do waranty work?  even if I didn't buy the spa from them?

thanks,
~Jay

[Vinny]

This question has been asked MANY times before. There is no place to go and get prices. Prices are also regional - what I pay in NJ may not be what you pay in FL. Someone in Utah bought a similar spa to mine for $1000 less than what I did but I got a good deal!

My suggestion is to go out and see spas and dealers, get a feel for the dealer - are they up front and you like them or are they slimy and you wouldn't buy anything from them. Get to see what you like and don't like in a spa - THEN figure out how much you want to pay (but you got to be reasonable). I found that most premium spas in MY area sold for about the same price (within $500 to $700) and were too expensive for ME. I had to go to the secondary lines  and they were also around the same price.

Most people don't end up buying a $10,000 spa for $6,000 unless the dealer is REALLY looking to get rid of it.

As for the warranty work - the selling dealer IS responsible for you not the closest dealer except in the case that you move to a new location then the closest dealer will do warranty work.

[J._McD]

Jay, welcome to the board.  Money is an issue to ALL of us, but what you are saying is that you want the Best you can find to meet your needs and expectations and pay a lower price than everyone else because you're shrewd?  Well I think you could be raw meat for the sharks.

This is a subject that has been hashed over and over by so many others.  We are both open and honest here and we are willing to help you but you need to open your eyes.  Please take a few minutes to read some of the threads in pages 2,3,4,5 regarding not only price, but dealers, service, warranty, expectations and pricing.  Drop your defensive guard for a moment and have an open mind.  I am not trying to sell you something, nor am I justifying prices, but first and foremost come to an understanding between good, better and best, and then the dealer from who you will buy.

You would have to think we are all idiots if we didn't want the BEST price too, both when we buy and when we sell, but unfortunately we do not have the liberty, as you seem to, to haggle with the manufacturer over pricing.  We either buy volume of what they have at the price they dictate OR we simply go elsewhere.

I know, you are probably thinking I'm a dealer and you lose interest in what I have to say.  And maybe, just maybe, we should all tell our suppliers to drop their prices or we will buy from their competitor and won't buy from them.  It doesn't work for us, because we have to deal with people, like you, who want a good spa that is reliable, dependable and enjoyable that has the full support of not only the factory but the dealer as well.

First you must understand, "Will any dealer do waranty work?  even if I didn't buy the spa from them?", the answer is NO.

Might I suggest that you shop around and focus on Quality, Value, which is price, and Service, ask your questions, make your notes, get a COPY of the written warranty, go home and have a coke and talk it over with your other half.

Establish what you want to spend, talk about what you like, discuss what you're willing to afford, pick out your 3 best choices , go back and ask to speak with the 1) manager, or 2) the owner and tell him what your willing to pay if you want to be like that.  Chances are, he just might show you the door and offend you IF, you do not treat them with the same respect you expect for your self.

You want to buy, but we don't know WHAT other than, you are afraid of paying too much.  "Nothing will ruin the spa experience more than knowing I paid too much!"
It is worse to pay too little because you could loose all of your low price $$$ on something that wasn't worth what you did pay.  We just know you want to pay as little as possible.

We want to sell, it is not a matter of who can we get the most out of, (the reverse of what you are doing).  We have honest and fair prices that shoppers, like you, do not even begin to know how to measure.  

Another dealer 100 miles away, as in your auto shopping, might cut the other dealers throat, but he knows he is not coming back to service you and neither will the closer dealer, now where does that leave you with your bargain price?  Now you can pay for service out of your savings.

Sorry to be so blunt, and I don't mean to offend you but PRICE is not the most important thing.

Tell us what you are shopping for, what you have looked at and what is the price range you want to be in?

[mowgli1]

Jay,

J. McD and Vinny are giving you some really good shopping advice. I would like to add one other consideration. Remember that buying a hot tub is a long term investment. You might own it for ten to fifteen years. Make sure you spend enough to keep you happy for the long run. good luck and happy shopping

[Mendocino101]

You are getting good advice from all mentioned above ....I would like to add that Hot Tubs/ Spas ....while being a large ticket item is such a small industry in the bigger picture of things that you really can not compare to things like the Auto Industry ....The volume is just not there....sales numbers world wide are only about 700,000 units a year ... That is why your local dealer is so important and also why you do not have a dealer on every corner....The market to support them is not there...

[rocket]

Jay,

Great advice from everyone.  In response to your last question. NO.  Dealers are only required to service what they have sold.

[fletch49]

I'm going to take some heat for this post, however, when you ask a question like that in this forum, you're going to get a lot of dealers, and sales reps reply to the question with answers typical of...well all of the above.

I personally agree with you 100%.  With just about every other major product I research and purchase, I find it easy to get each store's lowest price and then make the purchase based on the lowest price I find. Spa dealers are the exception. The industry seems to put major premiums on customer service because, not all dealers are equal on this front.  However, as a consumer I don't agree with this...I want the best that I can get. I'm not looking for perfection, but just the best value for what is out there, and dispite what the dealers think, customer service is but one part of it. Good customer service, a friendly sales staff and good after service shouldn't be a justification for a higher end prices...It should be included.  If you think I'm out to lunch, look around, most other competative markets, these things come standard...and not a reason to justify higher prices.

It's not that I want something for nothing, I just want to know that I am getting the best value for my dollar.

[Gary1911]

Jay,

Great advice from everyone.  In response to your last question. NO.  Dealers are only required to service what they have sold.

So if you move you have voided the Warranty !
They DON'T HAVE TO REPAIR THE SPA IF THEY ARE A FACTORY DEALER hhhhhhmmmmm

[johnvb]

 It's real simple, if you are worried about pricing, call each manufacturer of the tubs you are interested in. Ask them what the MSRP is in your area.

I would hope the MSRP would be equal to or more than what a dealer will offer. Who ever wouldn't give you that info, check them off your list. It's a niche market; they only have to be "so" competitive. Heck you may end up with nobody left on the list.  

But unless you have multiple dealers in the same area, selling the same brand of tub, you aren't comparing apples to apples anyway.

What we did was come up with a max dollar amount to spend, then picked the tub we though gave the most bang for the buck.

I understand the dealer position that they service only what they sell, but I also agree the good service should be a given, not an extra value. Anyway, what dealer out there is going to say, " sorry, but we have crappy service because we give such great deals".

[johnvb]

So if you move you have voided the Warranty !
They DON'T HAVE TO REPAIR THE SPA IF THEY ARE A FACTORY DEALER hhhhhhmmmmm

I wonder what percentage of "portable spa" owners actually take the spas with them when they move...I bet not too many.

[Mendocino101]

It is a very simple matter with regards to service and your dealer ....Your spa has serial number on it ....it will tell the dealer who is going to provide  service for you the date sold and by who...which of course will also let them know if it still covered under warranty ...By contacting the factory they will also know the address of the buyer , if you did not move than the dealer who sold it is supposed to service it....

[Gomboman]

Wow, I feel for people who sell spas for a living.  I bet  you have a lot of folks who think this way. I've realized that if a dealer is going to undercut everyone else he/she probably won't be around for service when you need them.  Spas are unlike everything else we purchase.  It's such a niche market.  You can't compare a spa purchase with buying stereo gear online using Pricegrabber.  If you want a name brand spa you will have to pay the piper. Unfortunately, there's no way around it.

[moviebuff2]

Since I've been reading this forum for the past  month or so, I've seen all this advice before.  I am impressed by the dealers on this forum who willingly explain key points to newcomers again and again.  You are a patient and VERY professional bunch - thank you.

However, I completely sympathize with the writer, Jay, as the hot tub sales business is light years away from how most everything else out there is sold...it feels like I've entered a time warp, circa 1980.  

I know everyone hates comparisons to the car industry, but it makes for good analogies.... In 2003 I bought a new Toyota Sienna mini-van .  It's an excellent car and I expect to have it for at least 15 years.  But even so, I would NOT have wanted to pay a penny more than I did... so what if I'll have it for a long while?? I still wanted the satisfaction on knowing I had gotten a VERY competitive price, which is easy to do with cars given the info available from Consumers' Reports and the Internet.  When the customer is armed with accurate pricing info, it makes for a very easy time when it comes to the final sale.  I really HATE the idea that I'll have to dicker to buy this hot tub... I know some of you give your best price up front , but I have a strong suspicion that that is not the typical
approach most hot tub salespeople take.

I must say, though, that this forum is outstanding -- without it, I don't think I'd know a thing (my "Spasearch" magazine arrived the other day--- other than a bunch of pretty pictures, it's a waste of glossy paper).  Yeah for the WTBHT forum.

Nancy

[Mendocino101]

Nancy,

I appreciate what you are saying.... However the industry is simply to small to try and except it to be like the car industry or most any other .... Do you know what for most people is the most expensive item they will ever buy next to a home, than a auto, it is floor covering... ever see a web site listing dealers prices or costs for carpet.... furniture for the home is the same way .....expensive items but costs are not readily available ...Autos are a highly regulated industry because they effect so many people ....but just think every home has carpet or floor covering of some type....same thing with  furniture ... yet less than 1 (ONE) percent of the homes in the country have a portable spa ... I think there is a big misconception, by some that Hot Tub dealers are out to rip people off ....like most things in life there are some extreme examples but those dealers do not represent all dealers across the country ....I have said this many times here before... by and large your local dealer is a most likely a small local business person who is just trying to make a living in the community in which he/she most likely lives and will not be around for long if they are ripping people off ...I think the reason so many people encourage consistently only about 10 makers is they have shown a history of  taking care of the customer and it is reflective in those who become dealers for their lines....of course they will still be those dealers who do things that so many of us in the industry cringe at and are probably more upset about than the average person as it simply makes our jobs at times tougher to do....

[Mendocino101]

I personaly agree with you 100%.  With just about every other major product I research and purchase, I find it easy to get each store's lowest price and then make the purchase based on the lowest price I find. Spa dealers are the exception. The industry seems to put major premiums on customer service because, not all dealers are equal on this front.  However, as a consumer I don't agree with this...I want the best that I can get. I'm not looking for perfection, but just the best value for what is out there, and dispite what the dealers think, customer service is but one part of it. Good customer service, a friendly sales staff and good after service shouldn't be a justification for a higher end prices...It should be included.  If you think I'm out to lunch, look around, most other competative markets, these things come standard...and not a reason to justify higher prices.
.
 

When you say this...as I mentioned above take furniture and Floor covering as an example ...prices are all over the board and every home in the country has some sort furniture or floor covering in them .....and what is really interesting is this something that as a dealer you can have the very same item "private labeled for your store and no one can ever shop you ....Sears......Best Buy...etc take electronics and have the model number changed just for them so that you can not actually go and shop .... I think people forget about so many of the things we all buy and take for granted that we may or may not be paying to much....but as I mentioned before the great thing about our competitive environment...is that it almost always assures that most of the time you will not .... but to those looking.... when something just seems to good to be true most of the time it is ..... don't  be fooled into thinking that when someone says to you "it is exactly the same thing as the 8000.00 dollar spa but I am selling it for only 5000.00" most likely that is what its worth ....