Arctic Spas Anyone?

[Guttboy]

I think I found the test by the ARC on the Arctic website.  It might have been me but I could not see any information on the type of cover used on the spa's.

I did find it funny on the cost comparison download....anyone have any clue on which "foam filled spa" was tested?

Not slamming Arctic at all just would like to know which "foam filled" brand they used.

Regards,

[HotTubMan]

This discussion is pretty hot right now, not sure if I want to throw gas on the flames or not......well here goes:

Several manufacturers have comissioned 3rd parties to study the energy efficiency of their brand...including both that I sell. I for one put little stock in these. The 3rd party was paid to do the study by one manufacturer. Whether it is in the contract or not, the desired results are implied and delivered by the 3rd party.

I would be more likely to beleive a study that was either commission by all of the manufacturers combined (never going to happen) or one that was conducted by the government or a 3rd party that does not profit from conducting the study in any way.

[ebirrane]

I love this comment " Some would argue they should be priced less because there are debates on whether their engineering approach works" What engineering might that be? I guess I should have argued that when I was purchasing the tub.

Spazz, I've posted this in great detail before and won't do your homework for you.  This happens time and time again, as if people who have been around for a while, and been through the technical discussions, need to keep a folder on "proof" so that every spastic who rolls in will be impressed.  Use the search feature.  Go find the "debates on whether their engineering approach works" and stop asking people to bring you your information on a silver platter.

I apologize for not setting you straight earlier, but I've been busy and your education is not my priority.

Now, if Arctic tested the tubs, and did not use the standard grade covers across all tubs (smaller thickness than what would come standard), then I would say that not only is it misleading, but grounds for a lawsuit.  

Ahh. He begins to make sense. Kudos! Arctics are not bad tubs, THEIR rhetoric is over the top.  If you bought one, you will enjoy it.

-Ed

[JPKeirstead]

I think I found the test by the ARC on the Arctic website.  It might have been me but I could not see any information on the type of cover used on the spa's.

I did find it funny on the cost comparison download....anyone have any clue on which "foam filled spa" was tested?

Not slamming Arctic at all just would like to know which "foam filled" brand they used.
 

I believe the brands were all listed in the study that can be found on our website.

Regards,
James

[JPKeirstead]

This discussion is pretty hot right now, not sure if I want to throw gas on the flames or not......well here goes:

Several manufacturers have comissioned 3rd parties to study the energy efficiency of their brand...including both that I sell. I for one put little stock in these. The 3rd party was paid to do the study by one manufacturer. Whether it is in the contract or not, the desired results are implied and delivered by the 3rd party.

I would be more likely to beleive a study that was either commission by all of the manufacturers combined (never going to happen) or one that was conducted by the government or a 3rd party that does not profit from conducting the study in any way.

I can appreciate your perspective.  I am sure it seems that the company commissioning the study would have plenty of influence on the results.  I can assure you this is not the case.  The Alberta Research Council is a well recognized research and testing firm that would not risk their credibility by allowing us to be involved in the study whatsoever.  In fact, we could not even be involved in buying the competitors spas.  They purchased them and then submitted us the bill.  We simply told them that we were interested in testing the energy consumption of the spas to compare. They prepared the tests and all were conducted in an isolated environment.

By the way, I heard another comment on the message board that the competitor's spas were given different covers then the spas come with.  Again, this is not the case.  The spas were tested with the covers that sold with the spas.  No alterations were allowed.

[Guttboy]

James,

I was referring to the other study that you can download from your site that was conducted in Loveland Colorado.  There is a "foam filled" spa that was run against the Arctic.  No mention as to what name brand or type of spa that the study was done against....just "foam filled".

Again not a slam just was curious as to which one this was run against.

Regards,

Mike

[JPKeirstead]

To use an "independent study" with skewded results to claim superiority over several other brands is a poor sales tactic that lends to the true nature of the sales and marketing department. Who cares if it's independent if the comparison is not fair.

Specifically how were the results skewed?  How difficult is it to compare how much energy each spa uses in a controlled environment?  The spas were all similar in size and had similar equipment.  The comparison was fair.  

[JPKeirstead]

James,

I was referring to the other study that you can download from your site that was conducted in Loveland Colorado.  There is a "foam filled" spa that was run against the Arctic.  No mention as to what name brand or type of spa that the study was done against....just "foam filled".

Regards,

Mike

Hey Mike,

I stand corrected.  I forgot about that one.  We didn't commission that test, a customer did.  It was one of the spas that was tested again by the Alberta Research Council.  I would prefer to let the ARC results speak, since it was a controlled test.

[JPKeirstead]

This last item is one that really burns me. Does anyone really beleive it is wise to simply level the dirt in your back yard and place a spa there? What if the ground shifts (around here that happens every fall and spring)? The forever floor has its advantages, but I feel it is misleading to suggest that one needn't build a proper base, concrete or otherwise.

Hey HotTubMan,

I just wanted to say that my Spa sat on the lawn in my backyard for 3 years without a proper base.  In fact, since I make the spas, I deliberately put it in an unlevel area and shimmed one corner with scrap plywood pieces I had in the garage.  I sold the spa to a rugby buddy of mine last summer, and have never had one issue.  

Just my experience
James

[Guttboy]

James,

Do you happen to have any dealers around the San Antonio/Austin Texas area?  Cant find any from the website....I like the layouts of some of the Arctics but without being able to see them in person I have to rule them out.

Regards,

Mike

[Steve]

Though I believe that's possible James, would a spa be covered under your warranty if a customer did the same and expereinced damage? Do you suggest that putting a spa on your grass is an exceptable installation?

Do you know of other brands which construct their spas to withstand this same application or do you feel this is limited to an Arctic? What % of manufactures could offer the same "feature" to their customers do you believe?

Steve

[JPKeirstead]

Though I believe that's possible James, would a spa be covered under your warranty if a customer did the same and expereinced damage? Do you suggest that putting a spa on your grass is an exceptable installation?

Do you know of other brands which construct their spas to withstand this same application or do you feel this is limited to an Arctic? What % of manufactures could offer the same "feature" to their customers do you believe?
Steve

Hey Steve,

I am not suggesting that putting it on the grass is the best installation.  However, we would cover it, as long as the spa was installed on a relatively level surface.

As for how unique this feature is, I am not sure.  I know there are a number of brands that require you to install their products on a concrete slab, or a deck so as not to void their warranty.

James

[JPKeirstead]

Can anyone direct me to a link to the test??

I would like to read that for myself.

I do have to state this though....I have heard some things from "number one" dealers that are outright "lies" as well to sell a tub.

I would like to see the results of the test personally as posted in a link so that I can wade through the rhetoric myself.


Thanks if you could be so kind.

Regards,

 :-/

Hey Guttboy,

The test is located at www.goarctic.com.  Got to Arctic Life --> Performance Report.

James

[Tman122]

Thanks for Showing up JP.

If the covers were not all the same thickness, then the test results were skewed. Yes the test involved standard covers. But the Arctic has a 1 sometimes 2 inch thicker cover than all the rest. To claim superior energy effieciency because of a thicker cover IS decieving the public, shame, shame. Some of us can see right through it.  

[Chas]

If the covers were not all the same thickness, then the test results were skewed. Yes the test involved standard covers. But the Arctic has a 1 sometimes 2 inch thicker cover than all the rest. To claim superior energy effieciency because of a thicker cover IS decieving the public, shame, shame. Some of us can see right through it.  

I understand your point Roger, but I think that Arctic is justified in doing the tests exactly the way the spas come from the dealers. If they put a thicker cover on as standard (and I don't know if they do or not - but I'm going to assume they do) then they will most likely be that much better at retaining heat because of it.

Now, if they don't insulate the rest of the tub well, or if they choose to use huge pumps with a voracious power apetite, then they may very well end up abrogating the advantage of the thicker cover.

I go back to the statement I have made for years:

HotSpring engaged the services of a fine, independant testing firm. The test is easily repeatable. Any spa firm on the planet could send as many or as few models as they choose, and the test would be run exactly the same. That could offer a true comparison number which would - for the first time - have some relevance in to the shopper.