24 hour Circ Pumps

[Vinny]

Hey HotTubMan BIGGER is better but only when you don't know how to utilize something smaller !    



I do have  real questions for you though - I dry tested a 480 (? - no lounger) and I didn't fit under one of the neck jet seats. Are the two seats different sizes? Are there different therapy jets in the seats? I emailed Coleman and they never got back to me - Thanks.

[rick]

Yeah Vinny.  You should have sat in the other one too.  It is made for a bigger person.  I have to slouch quite a bit to fit in the shorter one, but it's a perfect fit for my girl and others who are 5'9" or shorter.  The big one could be a bit taller for my tastes but it works well.  The only thing I hate about these therapy seats is that the top jets (neck jets) don't have jack for pressure.  They're worthless in my opinion.  Listening MAXX?

[Vinny]

Thanks Rick,

I had to do a double take (or is that a double sit) when I got into the smaller seat. I'm 6 feet tall so I thought that this was unusual not to fit into the seat.

Unfortunately, the local Coleman dealer really didn't know much about spas so I had no one to talk to there. I thought the Coleman was a nice product at a pretty good price but the lack of knowledge at the dealer and the fact that Coleman never emailed me back made me stop considering them.

[HotTubMan]

Rick, I agree on all points. I also told MAXX the same thing about the neck jets. I have been in tubs with more and less pressure over all. The Coleman gives great massage, but you are 100% right on the neck jets.

Vinny;

Height isn't everything either. I am 6'2"+ and I fit well in the deeper seat. I have seen taller individuals fit just as well and individuals my height fit better in the shorter seat. Reason? Some have longer legs, others have longer bodies.


HTMan

[Pooldevil]

You guys seem to have lost the plot !
We were suposed to be helping with the circ pumps ?
Anyway I have had dealings with both 24 hour and 2 speed ....
They should both give you the same turnover and cleaning cleaning  results The only advantages I could find is that the 24 hour pumps are quieter  and on some tubs it means that you do not have to turn the air on / off each time you use the tub , because it is a seperate pipe circuit.  
The only disadvantage is that the 24 hour pumps don't last as long as the two speed ones ....
at the end of the day I don't really think this should be much of a consideration when purchasing a new tub ...  both systems work well.

[Vinny]

Sorry about changing the thread.

I thought that even with 24 hour circ pumps the therapy pump(s) come on as well in some (all) manufacturers, either for clearing out the pipes or for additional filtration. The only difference would be how long they stay on, 5 min vs 5 hours twice a day, so you still have the main pumps coming on but only for shorter duration.

If the main pump comes on for 10 min a day and that pump can move 100 gal/ min (is this an accurate figure) you're filtering the water 2 to 5 times during that cycle, which helps the circ pump do its job

[Drewski]

Data Huh?

OK, here's some "data."

My Artesian Piper Glen was "plugged in" and brought to operating temperature on November 17th, 1999. It was moved on March 12th, 2004, and brought back "on-line" on April 21st, 2004.  I lost power during Hurricane Isabel (September 2003) for 21 days and didn't hook up my generator to the tub (tough choice, that one...).

The Piper Glen uses a small circulation pump and ozonator system. Although the spa has an "economy mode" option, I've NEVER used it. The circulation pump, ozonator system and heater run 24 hours/day.  On average, I use the tub 30 minutes a day, occasionally more, sometimes less.  The temperature setting is always 104 degrees, summer and winter.  Based on almost 5 years experience with the tub, utility costs vary between $30 and $40 monthly (lower in summer, higher in winter).

Using the dates of use as the basis of a pump hour calculation, my circ pump and ozonator system have been running almost continuously (as of the date of this post) for approximately 1,709 days.  This means each component has roughly 41,016 hours of operating time.  In this entire time, they have never failed or had "issues."

Why do I like circ pumps?

The circ pump on my tub has a flow rate of 248 GPH. This means the water volume of my tub is completely filtered every 2 hours.  Water filtration is what makes spa water clear, especially for heavy use tubs.  I often have guests over during the evening, with the tub getting "cloudy" by 11 PM.  After adding chemicals with clarifiers and letting the circ pump work at night, the tub is crystal by morning.  The circ pump filter (the 1999 Piper Glen uses 3 canister filters, with one dedicated to the circ pump, ozonator and heater circuit, the other two dedicated to the pumps) gets the most dirty, requiring cleaning every 3 days.

I let my circ pump always run for a very simple reason.  Electrical motors experience most problems and failures as a result of STARTING. Starting is the point of peak load with the greatest amount of strain being placed on the motor and components.  This is why I let the circ pump run continuously and also why I haven't experienced problems.  THINK about that if you have been told by sales people that larger spa pump motors can be used regularly for filtration.

The BOTTOM line is that in 5 years I've had NO failures, my water is clear and my energy costs are LOW.

Hope ya'll like my "data."

Peace and Hot Water....

Drewski



P.S.:  Undoubtedly after posting this, my circ pump will fail. If that happens, I’ll let you know.

[Mendocino101]

Data Huh?







Why do I like circ pumps?

The circ pump on my tub has a flow rate of 248 GPH. This means the water volume of my tub is completely filtered every 2 hours.  Water filtration is what makes spa water clear, especially for heavy use tubs.  I often have guests over during the evening, with the tub getting "cloudy" by 11 PM.  After adding chemicals with clarifiers and letting the circ pump work at night, the tub is crystal by morning.  The circ pump filter (the 1999 Piper Glen uses 3 canister filters, with one dedicated to the circ pump, ozonator and heater circuit, the other two dedicated to the pumps) gets the most dirty, requiring cleaning every 3 days.

 

Yes and that is the bigger argument 2 speed pumps hi flow filtering or low flow circ pumps....at 248ph you are filtering 5952 gallons a day or turning over the water in the tub roughly 10 times where in high flow system (low speed of the 2 speed pump it turns over roughly 25,000 gallons a day or about 50 times for your spa....

[poolboy34]

yes, and there are brands such as Caldera and Dimension One that utilize not only the 24 hr Circulation pump, but also utilize the jet pumps for 2 filter cycles a day.  Is this overkill?  Some might say it is, but a tiny circ pump can't pull finer particles that may sink to the bottom of the tub.  This is where the 2 "high Flow" filter cycles aid in cleaning the water.

[huh?]

T.U.O made a good point saying that 2 speed pumps have a higher rate of failure.  It may be comparable to the stop and go effect on car engines... it makes a lot of sense to me

[empolgation]

yes, and there are brands such as Caldera and Dimension One that utilize not only the 24 hr Circulation pump, but also utilize the jet pumps for 2 filter cycles a day.  Is this overkill?  Some might say it is, but a tiny circ pump can't pull finer particles that may sink to the bottom of the tub.  This is where the 2 "high Flow" filter cycles aid in cleaning the water.

So how many tubs that have a 24 hr circ pump also use a 2-speed pump to "aid in cleaning the water"?

If a system with a 24 hr circ pump needs the 2 speed pump then what is the real advantage of having a 24 hr circ pump? You still get the noise of the 2 speed pump - you still get the on/off of your 2 speed pump It won't be long before a brand comes out with the "super ultra extra clean system" with three 24 hour circ pumps and a 3 speed pump in a tub, it looks like they would sell big.

[windsurfdog]

So how many tubs that have a 24 hr circ pump also use a 2-speed pump to "aid in cleaning the water"?

If a system with a 24 hr circ pump needs the 2 speed pump then what is the real advantage of having a 24 hr circ pump?

My LSX utilizes a circ pump in conjunction (as most, I would guess) with continuous ozone and heat as needed (the ozone shuts down if any therapy pumps are switched on and doesn't resume until 1 hour after all therapy pumps are off.)  Low speed of pump #1 filters through the second filter set (circ pump uses the first of two filter sets) twice a day for 2 hours for a total of 4 hours.  This can be adjusted, if needed.  One nice advantage of this supplementary filtering by pump #1 is the ability to initiate extra filtering at any time my switching pump #1 on low speed which will time out after 2 hours as opposed to the other pumps which time out after 15 minutes (also adjustable).  The high speed setting for pump #1 also timeouts at 15 minutes.  All speeds of all therapy pumps are available at all times.

So, as I see it, the advantages for the 24 hr. circ pump is to supply continual ozone and to supply heat as needed without starting/stopping a therapy pump.  The advantage to the supplemental therapy pump filtration is the ability to easily call for supplemental filtering, if needed, plus the added filtration twice a day.

[SerjicalStrike]

Sundance has the circ. pump and has four filter cycles.  The default is 4 times a day, 30 minutes each.  One of the other good reasons for a circ. pump is continuous water movement.  It is a lot easier for stuff to grow in stagnant water than in water that is constantly moving.

[Big_Ed]

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but Drewski's reply was the only hit I got on a search for Piper Glen electricity costs....

I've had mine for 6-8 months now, I run it in regular mode at 103 degrees.  I'm in MA, and I use the tub sparingly (average once a week!).  My electric bill has gone up a cool $100 a month with the tub.  Based on what I've seen on the boards, and in talking to dealers and other owners, this seems way out of line.  Is it?

Tub is wired 220V, 50A breaker.  I'm puzzled.  Any help?

[wetone]

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but Drewski's reply was the only hit I got on a search for Piper Glen electricity costs....

I've had mine for 6-8 months now, I run it in regular mode at 103 degrees.  I'm in MA, and I use the tub sparingly (average once a week!).  My electric bill has gone up a cool $100 a month with the tub.  Based on what I've seen on the boards, and in talking to dealers and other owners, this seems way out of line.  Is it?

Tub is wired 220V, 50A breaker.  I'm puzzled.  Any help?

 

Ed,

We have a number of customers that own the Piper Glen spa here in Ontario Canada and they all report operating cost for this last winter about $30- $40 per month, using the spa 5 - 7 times per week 30-45 minutes per use.

$100 a month is more than it should be with the use you described.

PM me if I can be of any help.
John