Master and why they lack respect within the indust

[stuart]

mowgli1,
Thank you for being a big enough person to post the outcome after our heated debate earlier and I especially thank you for the PM you sent me, it really showed character!

Don’t feel like you’re the only one to ever fall for this type of tactic…Many others have.

I will do whatever I can to help in this situation and feel free to use my personal email if you have questions.

You will love the D1!

BTW, you would have enjoyed the Master Spa also if it had been handled better.

[mowgli1]

Stuart,

Thank you for your help. This forum is a great place to learn.

[MellowBeerMan]

I recently went to a home show outside of Atlanta and there were two Spa dealers there, one for Royal and one for Bulldog. While talking to both the Royal was first explained to me by a young kid who was dressed in camo's, not very professional for a show, but I am not here to judge people on looks. Well he was explaining the features of the tub and was doing a good job, I could tell he was new at selling, but I was interested in learning more, BUT then I suppose his boss, not sure who he was, but he jumped into our conversation and took over immediately, which i did not appreciate the young kid was doing fine on his own. But anyway the lead saleman/owner/boss was very pushy and kept telling me all the "famous" people that bought a tub from him...that completely turned me off and I graciously jumped out of the conversation.

The bulldog dealer was a man with two young very pretty assistants, but the girls took a  break and it was just me and him 1 on 1, he did a very good job explaining his tub and how it worked, and stressed I should look around and find out what fits me best, not pushy at all. He told me when I was ready and interested in the Bullfrog he would set up  a wet test for us.

The bullfrog dealer was very professional, I sent my wife over to the tub dealer and she talked to one of the young pretty assistants, apparently they were just as knowledgable as the main salesman, while young and pretty they were very professional and impressed my wife.

All things being said, it was the attitude and the professionalism of the bulldog staff that earned them a wet test....still other dealers to venture out to.

[windsurfdog]

Bill...
You are very right...and while it has been raised by others and verified that it seems to take place all across the country those who are Master "fans" never address it....again it is not about bashing their spas.....at the "Spa Extravaganza"........errrrrrrrrr uhhhh  I mean Master spa sale......the spas looked interesting somethings I liked somethings not.....but no more or no less than most others....but the sales people and the fact that I went thinking I was going to be able to some real shopping to compare other makers was such a turnoff.....

Mendo,
I am one of the "Master fans" that "never" addresses this issue only because it is not an issue which is happening "all across the country"....I've yet to experience one anywhere close to my part of the country.  So why should I or any other "Master fan" address this issue?  And since this forum is the only place I've even heard of this (mind you, I only read this and Doc's forums) and since I value the opinions of yourself and others here that share similar opinions of this, I would truly like to see not only the show itself but the advertising leading to the show.  If the ads purport "spas from many manufacturers" and indeed only MS shows, then I'd consider deception on the promoter's part, whether it is corporate MS or some regional sales person or an individual retailer.  I guess before I can address this, I need to take a Missouri attitude (Show Me) and see it and the advertising for myself....maybe then I can, as a "Master fan", address it.

[Mendocino101]

Windsurfdog....

Do you think the people who tell about this are lying....or imagining it.....It might not happen in every city but from where I am here on the west coast to Pool boy on the east.....to MI where Mowgil1 is from among others it does happen...Do you think myself or others have a vendetta against Master spas they are not sold in my area unless it is at a show...and as you can read here and I guess on Doc's board the story is the same....I can only guess based my experience that perhaps they promote this type of show in larger more populated city's as they are big events and do need to move a lot of spas to make them worth doing....But unless you think people conspired to make this stuff up....It does happen....Wow in writing this I wanted to check on something and  there are having another show here this weekend... you can call 1 800 spa sale now I was told....it is sponsored by Master Spas and that Sunbelt, Free flow and tough spas will be there a bit different than last years show where it promoted as having Caldera and Coleman there among others...the reason it really got me last year was I had not seen a Coleman and was looking forward to it...when I asked the sales person where everyone else was I was told that once they found out that we (as in Master) were going to be there,  all the others pulled out because they can not compete.....

[mowgli1]

If you are from Missouri you could have caught the MS show in Kansas City in late Jan. After  I put down my dep. in Novi Mi I tried to contact my salesperson the next week and that is where he was setting up a show. In fact every time I try to contact him he is somewhere putting on a show.
The guy who runs these shows  owns master spa of Michigan. On their website they claim to be the largest retailer of spas in the United States.
When I was wavering on my decision to buy I asked if they would be back for the pool and spa show at the same site in Novi the weekend of April 1. He replied no, because that date was in the middle of the season. Since this is the only show in metro Detroit totally dedicated to pools and spas, I thought this was odd since they have a store one block away  from the show site. After seeing how they operate it doesn't seem odd anymore. They own two stores in the Detroit area  and run these shows from there. I know you're not from Missouri ,  just joking.
Trust me these shows exist

[Mendocino101]

here you go

http://www.poolandspashow.com/coupon.php

now go and look and take note of the drop down for what brand of spa you are looking for and look at the names mentioned..... yet none will be at the show.....this is just a small example of why it is so misleading....if you look at the show pictures....can anyone see anything but a master spa....maybe I missed it if it is there

[Spatech_tuo]

Give it a shot Windy! Its always best to see it for yourself when you're skeptical.

[windsurfdog]

First things first.....

Mendo,

I'm very sorry that you took my last post as skepticism about the truth of what you and others were talking about....in no way did I doubt your sincerity/integrity.  If the first part of my post put you off and prevented the second part of the post from communicating my thoughts, then I apologize for not making the first part more palatable.  Yes my feathers were a little ruffled when you said that "Master fans" never address this issue.  It's no secret that I am a Master fan (what else should I be if I buy an MS spa that operates perfectly and fulfills my expectations 100%?) but I honestly have not seen anything regarding this promotion until today except for the comments on this board.  A list of cities included in upcoming events (Cleveland, Ohio, Toledo, Ohio, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Chicago, Illinois, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Anaheim, California, Pomona, California,  Green Bay, Wisconsin, Salt Lake City, Utah,
Denver, Colorado, San Diego, California, Long Beach, California, San Jose / Bay Area, California, Las Vegas, Nevada) are nowhere near the southeast much less Florida hence my lack of exposure.

I perused not only the coupon but the rest of the site as well.  I also called the 800 number and listened to the message.  Let me first say that I am not here trying to defend this particular retailer's mode of operation (it does appear to me that this is a singular MS retailer as mowgli states) and I am attempting to look at this as objectively as possible.

I saw nothing on the site which stated which manufacturers would be in attendance.  The dropdown box on the coupon did not state that the included manufacturers would be attending the show yet, in context, it could lead one to believe that those manufacturers would be present.  I've seen sleazier advertising than that but, indeed, it could be misleading but nowhere on that site does it mention which manufacturers would attend.  If subsequent local advertising states differently, then that would be misleading.  If anyone can forward any local advertising for any of the upcoming events, I'd like to see it.

I think what we have here is a retailer that has decided to hawk not only MS spas but also pools, gazebos and saunas in a traveling road show.  I just don't see how this whole operation can be attributed to corporate MS, which is the debate here, correct?  Yes, MS is listed as a "National Sponsor" but what does that mean in this context?

As far as the comments like "they pulled out because they could not compete".....that is just 1 person running their mouth and trying to make a sale.  Is it truthful?  Most probably not.  Does it represent any more than 1 person trying to make a sale?  Probably not.

So that's my take.  Will I throw out my LSX if MS is found to be this huge black cloud?  Probably not.  But if this is just an overzealous retailer looking for a sale, then all of this MS bashing is moot.......

[Mendocino101]

Thanks Dog,

no worries...One thing I will share is that last year they did mention the others who would be there on the same site I put the link to....I do not think this is a local dealer but a Master factory show....the size and rental for the site would not allow very many local retailers to put on such a show....The Pomona and Anaheim shows are no more than 30 minutes apart....I think the team moves from site to the next...a more effective move as far as costs I am sure...I do want to say once again that I have no doubt that they make a nice spa...When I went to the show last year I was not a dealer but a genuine shopper and I did think I was going to see all the different lines of spas there......You are right about the salesperson and there answer they were more stories I could share about what I was told..things that just make you go hummmm....but the bottom line is that I am sure they make a good spa and for many like yourself it was the best choice....but they do seem to market things that in ways that many question...

[stuart]

.....And the plot thickens....

That "One retailer" you mention Windy is the National sales director for Master spas named Tim Baele. He has design and set up Masters sales tracks, programs and shows for a few years now. He also sets up dealerships retaining a percentage of ownership for himself. He is a very canny guy that absolutely knows how to drive traffic regardless of whether it is truthful or not.

The "National Sponsors" listed on the site are also misleading. Master Spa is of course a national sponsor, Tuff Pools know nothing about their supposable sponsorship and Bestspas.net and Hottub101 are both sites set up by a Master spa dealer in CA that I believe is Tim's brother. All of the info on those sites is skewed to make Master stand out and there is no independent documentation to prove any of the claims!

I would think that your experience with your spa and your dealer would warrant you never changing spas however, no one is questioning the product here but the ethics of the company. This does not reflect on you or your dealer so you should feel no need to defend anything. With so many of us stating the same things I would think that constantly challenging that would be pointless unless they attack you or your dealer personally and quite frankly my friend...If they start attacking you personally I'm jumping in on your side

[Mendocino101]

Here is the coupon I posted the link to i......here is what you get for it...I pasted.....it...by the way I choose Hot Springs as the Brand I was looking for.....but here is what you coupon was for

POOL AND SPA
SHOW  
 
Present this Coupon at the

Spa Pool and Patio Show  
&
Health, Fitness & Travel Show  

January 7, 8 & 9  
 
 
 
And recieve
a  
Value Package with purchase from the Master Spas Booth  

To Windsurf.....

Truly and with all sincerity I am very happy for you and that you like your spa the way that you do...I hope that it gives you great service for many years to come....these posts were never intended to take away from the Spa Master builds.....but it started with a Master dealer who claimed to be the largest in his area telling absolute lies about another line....and it turned into some of the things that Master does to promote their spas.....again I do not think you will find anyone here Saying they build a poor spa....but the shows are something they do and in "my experience" with them, they were misleading......I wish you the best Dog.......enjoy your Hot water....

[spatexport]

One thing's for sure, every time the name Master Spas is written or spoken, the brand recognition increases.  The apparent controversy certainly piques the curiousity.

[Steve]

One thing's for sure, every time the name Master Spas is written or spoken, the brand recognition increases.  The apparent controversy certainly piques the curiousity.

I've never seen a Master but from what I've read here, the quaity seems to be good and most owners are happy with the product.

But the above quote sounds like an advertising campaign from the pages of the wacky Arjuna.

Steve

[JPKeirstead]

With all due respect JP, I wasn't trying to slander or put down your company in any way shape or form.  I was simply making an observation.  I have never said that Arctic nor master Spa makes a bad product.  However, time and time again, the actions of a few individual dealers(reguardless of brand b/c it happens with almost all of them) has hurt the reputations of reputable manufactuers.  Unfortunately it seems that the same brands are repeatedly mentioned by consumers who have had issues with dealers.

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Spas Dealer

I agree, however, I have heard as many stories of unprofressional behaviour throughout the forums.  I do agree that a few can have a great impact on the image of a company.  My point is that I have not seen that there are more about Arctic then any other product.  

We do our best to educate all of our dealers to sell our product based on it's merits rather then negatively sell against the competition.  However, as I am sure you know, it is virtually impossible to control what every salesman may say.  I can only hope they will all conduct themselves professionally.  In fact, I wish that of all salespeople within our industry, as it will only raise the image of our whole industry.