Master and why they lack respect within the indust

[Mendocino101]

With all due respect to the Happy and helpful Master spa owners who contribute to this board.....Here is something that is taken directly from another board and points to why Master within the spa industry is questioned so many times by other industry professionals....The person claims to be their biggest dealer in the Great Lakes area......and what he mentions here is completely false....
"Marqui spa has the reputation of changing their warranty from year to year while master Spas warranty remains the same. Marqui used to offer a microban shell and now they don't carry it because they want to go with a shell thats cheaper to make. I live in Grand Rapids MI and its one of the largest hot tub communities in the U.S. because you have 4 manufactures and 10 dealers and no one carries Marqui lol Geee i wonder why, that right their should bring up red flags. The marqui rep for great lakes region is trying to get a dealer to carry his product, our compANY TURNED HIM DOWN. Also if your concerned with safety all master spas are UL listed as self contained spas marqui spas are not UL approved. If you want to check me out on this visit www.ul.com go under certifiaction and type in marquispas and then type in masterspas. The choice is clear my friend"

A few things Marquis is UL listed...he is sorta right about the MicroBan....it is no longered offered as an option it is  however now STANDARD on every spa they make....

[spahappy]

Bring him over to this board Mendo and we'll beat him up.



Spahappy

[Mendocino101]

By the way...I am not saying Master makes a bad spa.....it is more about things that in marketing and sales that they seem to endorse .....Spa shows that are really Master shows.....the very very deceptive rebate program.....

[poolboy34]

It should be pointed out that there is no proof as to the effectiveness of microban in preventing bacteria in spas or forming to the spa shell.  Microban is simply a marketing tool.  One advantage to Lucite arcylics w/ microban is that there are more color options available to the consumer.  Also I saw on another board where a master spas dealer told a poster that he would beat any price that any other master dealer quoted the customer (this master dealer was in the midwest, and was willing to sell out of his territory into another master spa dealers mide west area, over state lines too).  I agree with you mendo my friend in that master makes a decent spa w/ a lot of cool features but a lot of the tactics employed by their sales and marketing dept are shady and borderline unethical at times.

[Mendocino101]

Poolboy...

You are right about Microban and if it is effective in helping to prevent bacterial growth it does however enhance colors and Marquis has made the decision to make it standard on all of there 05 spas....Certianly nice to have if you are not paying a up charge for it...but as the Master dealer says that Marquis does not offer it because they make a cheaper shell is such a blatant lie.....

[poolboy34]

It is nice, it definilty makes the shell colors stand out more.  Hawkeye has it on their shells.   You definilty get more choices for shell colors that's for sure.   I also tend to believe that the MAIN reason Marquis isn't in that particular dealers area is more due to shipping charges on the spas then it has to do with the quality of the tubs.  Having a local manufacturer is VERY advantageous for a dealer.  being able to go to the manufacturer and pick up your spas definitly helps to lower your costs.  Also having manufacturers w/in close proximity also helps to reduce shipping charges.

[ndabunka]

Here is another reason... I was trying to decide what Spa brand to place in a store a while back. Realized I missed the opporunity to rep for Master as another dealer snapped up this territory in the summer of 04. I went to what was promoted as a "Spa Show" with many mfgs represented (from TV ad). Got there and thought the ZERO refunds policy was odd but paid my $5/person and walked in. Realized the reason for the sign almost immediately. The ONLY spas there were Master.  There were a few non-master companies on the edges selling add ons, gazebo's, etc but no other spa mfgs were there. Essentially, I had paid $5/person to visit a Master Spa showroom floor.  OK, I had been had (as had many others). Decided to "play the game" as a buyer and got info of the spas, sizes, etc. I was then introduces to one of the Master Spa "principles" who had flown in for the show (I guess the salesman was trying to impress me...It backfired on him BADLY).  When I told them I was interested in what spas they had in the $6K to $8K range, they indicated that they could only "go that low" with their Down East version of the product.  As we "chatted" I clearly stated that I was not a buyer but was actually considering getting into the business and (at that time) respected the Master brand. He confessed that the majority of spas sell in the price range I was looking at. He went on to say that they make more margin on the Down East platform and it was a great way to generate revenue (trying to appeal to my greedy side).  I asked if they sold many of the LS750's for the $13K price they were asking and he stated "We don't sell that many but if you have a buyer that can afford it, why would you sell them something for less money" (even if the competitors $9K product is equal to or better than their high-end product)? The thing he didn't realize is that I DESPISE such a greedy selling techniques and actually percieve the BAD techniques as a dis-service to the public.  I realized that this is their ONLY driving force behind the PRINCIPLES efforts to promote his products (get as much cash out of the suckers as possible).  In the end I essentially called him a snake oil salesman who wasn't in the least bit interested in his clients needs but rather was interested only in lining his own pockets at the cost of integrity.  The Owner turned red and stormed away. My wife was embarrassed by my frankness to this guy.  I thought of making a bigger deal and pointing out to the other shoppers what a jackass this guy was but decided that I had a normal life to live and simply moved on. Walked outside his "showroom" and had a little BBQ pork at the BBQ competition that was also going on (i.e. no cost) and then went and looked at $200K motor homes across the street (also at ZERO cost) since my dad was considering one of them...

[poolboy34]

The scary thing is that all too often we hear about master spa dealers, reps, principles etc that are exactly like how mendo and bunka describe them.  its unfortunate too.  Because we all know there are reputable dealers out there who sell master spas and there are also very happy master spa owners too.  And this is not to say that their aren't bad dealers and poor reps representing and selling other brands of spas either, b/c there are.  it just seems that master spa, cal spa, catalina, coast and arctic have more of these horror stories then any of the other brands of spas on the market.  it really makes me wonder how in fact these companies and dealers stay in business with the poor reputations they have earned over the years.

[Tman122]

Being the head of purchasing tools and equipment for the past 20 years for three different mechanical contractors I have learned a few things about "Snake Oil Salesman" as you folks have so elequently put it. I say that because there is some very very sleasy sales folks out there, and saying "snake oil" is a compliment to some. But having learned how to deal with sales people I can tell you this, once you have it figured out it is easy to get right to the bottom of the bunk and make them fold into a standard markup, and work from there. My wife won't let me grocery shop with her no more because I ask the guy behind the meat counter if I can get a bigger discount if I buy a pallet full of chops, and how about if I commit to a years worth of meat, blah blah blah. Or I like this one I will buy all my spa's from you for my 18 cabins at the lake and the resort I am half owner in across the lake if you sell me this one for my personal house for cost plus 5 percent.

My point is it can be turned around on them if your capable of playing the same game and holding your own. It's not easy for some, and doing it with a straight face also becomes not part of our nature. By taking the upper hand and explaining what's right for you, not them, being agressive, as they are, and putting yourself in the position of strenght, because after all it's YOUR MONEY. You will find it easier to gain a repetuar with any salesman. It helps to educate yourself on whatever product your looking for by comparing brands and investigating companys before you start.

I also know salesman that could sell fire to the devil, are very courteous, understanding and stand by there customers. Those are the ones I can deal with. And we can both feel good that he made a fair markup and I got a fair deal.

Auto's are the worst most full size trucks can have a 10,000 dollar mark up for the dealer by the time they get there year end kick back from the manufacturer and finance company. I always go in and think if I can pay the dealer 2 maybe 3 grand over what they are going to have to pay at the end of the year, I have recieved a good deal. I like to hold out the 2-3 grand in front of the owner of a dealership. Tell him he don't have to do nothing, but order it and fill out the paper work. Don't sell me nothing I have my mind made up. Do it over the phone to 3 different dealers and tell them exactly what you are doing, it's amazing how after a while you'll get one to play or two. Then the next time when you call them back and tell them again what you did last time and what your doing again, they all want to play.

[stuart]

Marqui spa has the reputation of changing their warranty from year to year while master Spas warranty remains the same. Marqui used to offer a microban shell and now they don't carry it because they want to go with a shell thats cheaper to make. I live in Grand Rapids MI and its one of the largest hot tub communities in the U.S. because you have 4 manufactures and 10 dealers and no one carries Marqui lol Geee i wonder why, that right their should bring up red flags. The marqui rep for great lakes region is trying to get a dealer to carry his product, our compANY TURNED HIM DOWN. Also if your concerned with safety all master spas are UL listed as self contained spas marqui spas are not UL approved. If you want to check me out on this visit www.ul.com go under certifiaction and type in marquispas and then type in masterspas. The choice is clear my friend

Oh the places I could go here!!!

I hope this guy doesn't lie to his wife this way! Come on! Marquis has increased their warranty over the last 5 years as the product proves itself more and more. Master still has the same warranty with the same exclusions and if you do a side be side comparison you will see all kinds of holes in the Master warranty that Marquis fills!

Master spa dealers and salesman tend to be some of the most aggressive out there and many borderline or even are outright unethical. Marquis has won several awards for customer education and innovation.

I would Love to sell against this guy! He would be my best sales tool!!!

BTW, Marquis is and has been UL listed for years…. they were the first company to offer MicroBan on every spa in the line and have Never stopped offering it however, they are the first to say that your filtration and sanitation are much more important than MicroBan.

BTW, the dealer for Grand Rapids is; SERENITY SPAS 1868 W GRAND RIVER AVENUE in OKEMOS. If a dealership is doing a good job of marketing the product from a neighboring town Marquis might not open another dealer there. Sometimes they even hold off for that dealer if they have plans to expand to another store and just to inform this nutcase…4 manufactures and 10 dealers in no way qualifies you as “one of the largest hot tub communities in the U.S”!
I wonder if he knows that the world doesn't end at the edge of Grand Rapids (do they have spell check up there)?

[windsurfdog]

With all due respect to the Happy and helpful Master spa owners who contribute to this board.....Here is something that is taken directly from another board and points to why Master within the spa industry is questioned so many times by other industry professionals....The person claims to be their biggest dealer in the Great Lakes area......and what he mentions here is completely false....
"Marqui spa has the reputation of changing their warranty from year to year while master Spas warranty remains the same. Marqui used to offer a microban shell and now they don't carry it because they want to go with a shell thats cheaper to make. I live in Grand Rapids MI and its one of the largest hot tub communities in the U.S. because you have 4 manufactures and 10 dealers and no one carries Marqui lol Geee i wonder why, that right their should bring up red flags. The marqui rep for great lakes region is trying to get a dealer to carry his product, our compANY TURNED HIM DOWN. Also if your concerned with safety all master spas are UL listed as self contained spas marqui spas are not UL approved. If you want to check me out on this visit www.ul.com go under certifiaction and type in marquispas and then type in masterspas. The choice is clear my friend"

A few things Marquis is UL listed...he is sorta right about the MicroBan....it is no longered offered as an option it is  however now STANDARD on every spa they make....

Mendo,
Thank you for the "due respect" introduction....I value your opinions and the opinions of others in this thread.  With all due respect to you and others posted here, I do find it rather odd that such a fuss has been made about comments from an individual who is decidedly confrontational and misinformed.  Though he may claim to be the biggest MS dealer in the midwest, his comments lead me to believe he may be no more than a broom pusher--easily a possibility in this internet world in which we populate--or a troll--or just an idiot.  What is more disappointing is the way a completely off-the-wall and misinformed post as this would set off yet another MasterBasher session but, unfortunately, that seems to be the way here.  The only reason I comment rather than ignore is not to try to convince anyone here to change their opinions, which are very strong, but to keep the casual spa shopper from thinking that MS, though they make a good tub as was quoted by several posters in the thread, is not this huge black cloud of trouble that is portrayed.

[stuart]

Windy is right, we are not belittling the spa itself but rather the sales philosophy of many of the dealers!

The problem is that they have a guy who is an independent contractor that has headed up the majority of the sales under the factory name. Much of the questionable ethics can be directly pointed towards him and his crew and not the factory. IMO, the factory is digging a hole for themselves out of greed by letting it continue just to have the volume....

Now having said that Windy has a Master and loves it along with a few others on this forum…

[Mendocino101]

Mr Dog....

What I hope you understand is that...and I am sure you do is that the Internet while such a great a valuable tool....for so many in so many ways....is also so unregulated that a person such as the gentleman from the Great Lakes area can post this and while it is completely false and without any merit at all....Influence those who are trying to make a educated and thoughtful decision about something that they will most likely have for many years....I think you will agree that people like....Steve...Chas....Stuart.....SpaHappy....Poolboy among others while all representing different makes of spas all do so with the respect and the professionalism that people deserve and none of them have to blatantly lie about their products but even more so about another's to earn their living.....I guess what I am trying to say is that you do read here and on other boards about so many shady dealers and sales practices and when you seem to consistently come across certain lines that do in fact seemingly encourage these type of practices...It is frustrating to you as a dealer because it is the type of thing that hurts the indusrty.....The thread about the lady out of Texas and what she is going though is another example of this.....(not Master related)....As I have said here before I wish Master would simply stop with some of the marketing things they do because the spas they make...I am sure can stand on there own to next any other.....Many owners like yourself seem to be very pleased.....

[stuart]

Mendo,
Have I ever told you that I really appreciate the way you think? Even when your bombarding my with questions

[JPKeirstead]

 it just seems that master spa, cal spa, catalina, coast and arctic have more of these horror stories then any of the other brands of spas on the market.  it really makes me wonder how in fact these companies and dealers stay in business with the poor reputations they have earned over the years.

Exactly where are these horror stories about Arctic Spas?  I follow a few forums and have not seen any.   I also know intimitely the great lengths we, at Arctic, go to ensure the end customer is taken care of in the event of a warranty, or any service issue for that matter.  I also know how hard our dealers work to support their customers.

I would appreciate that you not slander our company, our products or our service, without backing it up with factual "horror" stories.

James Keirstead
Arctic Spas