Swim Spas

[stuart]

I have for the most part stayed out of the fray a bit here but I have to throw my 2 cents in....

We sell the D1 AFS systems and are an authorized installer for the Endless Pools. I have 2 AFS units in stock and on my floor.

I haven't tried the endless pool but have talked to many people that have purchased them. I have had many people tell me that the Endless pool was not everything they thought it was going to be when they purchased it and I have Never had someone say that about the D1. In fact, everyone that I've talked to that owns a D1 AFS are thrilled with it and want to tell me of all the new ways of exercise they have found since owning it!

I don't know anyone with a Swimex and have never tried one....

[Steve]

Wait a minute here Stuart...aren't D1 swim spas using those cheesy swim jets?

Ya need a BIG FREAKING WHEEL man to move that darn water. Wasa matta which you? If it ain't pushing the water over the dfar edge, it's pretty much useless.



If it ain't lookin like dis, f'get it!

Steve

[stuart]

You’d better step outside and chill a minuet!

(sorry, I just thought that was pretty witty of Chas)

[Chas]

You’d better step outside and chill a minuet! (sorry, I just thought that was pretty witty of Chas)

Thank-you Stuart.

And Steve, you proved my point: wouldn't you rather waterski behind the boat you pictured than a jet boat?

[Steve]

Actually no Chas. I don't think a paddlewheel boat could keep my body on the surface of the water.  

Are you saying the jet boat would be too powerful? I'm confused.  

A jet boat sure gives a nice wake to ski on though. Good point!

Steve

[Drifter]

Ummm can I jump back in the fray?  As I was saying earlier the cost of installation for these units is substantial. As someone pointed out if your going to be swimming for excersise you don't want the water at 103! Therefore you can't just stick it outside like a spa. My friend looked into buying endless and he was all set until he looked at the other costs involved.  If you stick it in your existing home your going to have to do substantial work to accomidate it. If it's going outside then chances are a solairum or other addition will have to be built. I can remember reading several threads on other web sites about owners of endless complaining about the "unforseen" substantial expense involved in putting one of these in. Therefore I still say spend 30k and put in a regular backyard pool that your whole family and friends can enjoy and take the other 10k and buy yourself a membership to a local indoor pool. If you want to swim laps then 25 yards (or meters if your lucky) is what you need!
   ok time to jump back out!....BTW I'm 41 with the mind of a 12 year old and I hear he wants it back!

[Chas]

A jet boat sure gives a nice wake to ski on though. Good point!

Steve

Well, for a good wake, you can't beat the Malibu Skier: they had a 400 gallon ballast tank you could fill or empty to give more or less wake for doing slalom or wake boarding. But prior to my back injury when I did waterski, my favorite ski boat was always this one:

[Bill_Stevenson]

It is remarkable to read all the hearsay and second opinion and sales talk in this thread.  Someone correct me if I am wrong, but in re-reading the posts in this thread there is damn sparse testimony from people who actually swim as a sport.  A lot of opinions expressed here are self admittedly based on no actual swim time.  And watching others swimming in a spa not the same as swimming in them.  

I would like to repeat that we have actually used a variety of swim spas over a period of years including both types mentioned in this thread.  More than once, and more than for just casual swimming.  My whole family, including two competitive swimmers, three generations in fact, have all swum in these things.  Many, many times.  The best for swimming, not just my opinion, but the opinion of a lot of people who take their swimming seriously is the type that moves the whole body of water with the return being through separate ducts.  The Endless Pool is representative of the type I am talking about.

I would suggest that anyone who is reading this thread and doesn't know what to make of the controversy, but who is thinking of buying a swim spa, go to competitions where swim spas might be found in use.  Or check with the many universities and colleges that have swim teams to ask what they use and what they would recommend.  

Regards,

Bill    

[Steve]

I would suggest that anyone who is reading this thread and doesn't know what to make of the controversy, but who is thinking of buying a swim spa, go to competitions where swim spas might be found in use.  Or check with the many universities and colleges that have swim teams to ask what they use and what they would recommend.   

Thanks for your insight Bill. I strongly agree!




Steve

[Chas]

And watching others swimming in a spa not the same as swimming in them.

I agree - but watching these units being demonstrated at the NSPI and/or Aqua show gives you an amazing amount of info - you can, as I have said, see the obvious difference in the amount of water they move. You can see the vast difference in effort required, the vast difference in speed control, and the vast difference in similarity or lack of similarity to a swim lane.

That's the main difference as I see it - do you want a unit which closely approximates a lap pool, or do you want a large spa with the optional bungi-cord gear to expand it into a sort of home gym? They both have strong benefits and I am not in any way trying to put down the large spa units. You simply need to know which one you want when you go shopping.  

I would suggest that anyone who is reading this thread and doesn't know what to make of the controversy,    

I don't know that there is a controversy - other than Steve and I having a little fun - there really are two main categories of swim spa. Both have supporters and fans. The competitve swimmer is far more likely to feel at home in the counter flow units, while the average family will get more use out of the large spa, though I have found that most folks who purchase the swim jet types usually do end up using them simply as large spas - and understand me clearly on this one: there's certainly nothing wrong with owning a nice big spa!!

[Bill_Stevenson]

Gee, I didn't know that the Toronto Maple Leafs decided to form a swim team.  Makes sense since no one is skating.  

[Chas]

Personally, I think they should form a waterski team....

[Steve]

I generally find that there are 2 types of consumers when it comes to spas or swim spas.

The first customer has a preconceived notion that more is better. These customers generally consider number of jets and horsepower to be their primary concern when in fact, most of us here know differently. All of us in the retail sector have spent many a presentation explaining the reasons why this isn't the case and explaining the true benefits of ownership from many other, more critical examples of what makes up this purchase. It can be hard to get this message across sometimes (as we've seen in this thread ) yet we continue to try and give them the necessary tools to make a good buying decision. Yes, sometime these people will go with the model that offers 86 small therapy jets based primarily on the jet count and having 4 - 6Hp pumps so they can tell their buddy what they bought.  

Generally, their second purchase will reflect the same principles we attempted to tell them initially. :-/

Customer #2 will research the purchase and carry a booklet filled with details on each spa into each showroom for an accurate comparison of each model they are contemplating. They will test each spa/swim spa and come away knowing that HP rating and jet count means very little to most serious consumers. They will swim in a swim spa and realize that swim spas are not designed to prevent you from out swimming the current, but geared towards a steady, powerful stroke which will provide some of the best exercise possible. These are not play toys but sophisticated swim machines aimed at a wide variety of swimmers from pre-teen to competitive athletes. The suggestion that these are large "spas" for splashing around in is ludicrous and totally unsubstantiated.

The unwary consumer will ask if these jets can be out swam, but these aren’t the type of consumers looking for a proper devise that will give them a clean, turbulence free swim. They think they’re going to get in and go CRAZY for 30 minutes swimming as hard as they can. Not a remotely accurate picture of what a swim spa is at all. It’s the same reason we don’t see people sprinting down the street for 30 minutes straight but instead jogging.

Yes, the Hydropool swim spa is totally adjustable to give variations considering the swimmers ability. And as many of these people find out after 15-20 minutes in one of these swim spas, the last thing they are concerned about is out swimming the jets. They will be completely exhausted, guaranteed!

In closing and to summarize; research the purchase and wet test. Both a spa and swim spa have so much to them than the force of water they produce. Ask most owners of spas on this forum and they will concur.

Steve

[Chas]

The suggestion that these are large "spas" for splashing around in is ludicrous and totally unsubstantiated.

Steve, Please understand I hold you in high esteem, and your product is a fine one. I meant no disrespect when I said that, but I stand by my a$$ertion: keep in mind I earn part of my living by selling spas, so calling something a large spa is far from an insult, nor do I mean for it to be demeaning.

But swim jet pools and counterflow pools are two different animals, and people need to shop knowing that. I agree that most people would be very happy owning a unit based on swim jets.

Competitive swimmers, or people who are now swimming regularly at the club or public pool, may want the paddlewheel unit.

Both systems have strengths and weeknesses.

[Steve]

Steve, Please understand I hold you in high esteem, and your product is a fine one. I meant no disrespect when I said that, but I stand by my a$$ertion: keep in mind I earn part of my living by selling spas, so calling something a large spa is far from an insult, nor do I mean for it to be demeaning.

But swim jet pools and counterflow pools are two different animals, and people need to shop knowing that. I agree that most people would be very happy owning a unit based on swim jets.

Competitive swimmers, or people who are now swimming regularly at the club or public pool, may want the paddlewheel unit.

Both systems have strengths and weeknesses.

  

None taken as you know I feel the same Chas.  
I just happen to disagree that a swim spa with jets designed specifically for this application could be construed as anything less than a swim spa. Man we’re stubborn eh?

And you’re right Bill…The Leafs aren’t a swim team but the reason I brought that up is they are professional athletes that incorporate weight training, cardiovascular and endurance training within a Hydropool swim spa. After all, they are some of the most conditioned athletes in sport. And for the record, they are all in synchronized swimming now utilizing both Hydropool swim spas as opposed to playing hockey!

Steve