Term's secrets revealed!

[Brewman]

I second that, Drewski.  As tragic as this was my heart goes out to the homeowner- he was protecting his family.  

Sad part is this all could have been prevented-  
Don't wish to be hurt or killed, don't commit crimes.
How hard is that one to figure out?

Good thing for your friend he lives in a place where you're not automatically the bad guy for protecting what's yours.

[Tatooed_Lady]

Hmmm....3 strangers in my livingroom in the middle of the night...I think one or all are armed, and I've got my firearm in hand, worrying about my safety and that of my family. That's a no brainer. The guy is freaked about it now, but he did what he felt he had to do. You just can't take chances and hope that the criminal (in this case 3 dumbass kids) will just walk or run away without trying to get rid of witnesses....
This is a good part of why I strongly disagree with the whole idea of not being able to discipline my child the way I was when growing up...or the way my father was when HE was growing up. It was never a beating, it was a lesson that got the point across.
Sorry if I come across as a hardass on this one, but I'm thinking that with crime shooting up exponentially every day, we need to get back to letting families protect their own, and be on level ground with the criminals, not being sitting ducks at home....

[Brewman]

 Hardass?  Nope, not in my book.

I see way too many parents molly-coddle or try to be their children's buddies instead of their parents.

Today in the local news was a story on 3 children, between the ages of 6 and 8 who entered the backyard of someone who lived on their block, and the used a rock the size of a cantelope and a stick to beat a small puppy to the point it had to go on a ventilator- the owners chose to disconnect and the puppy died.  

The easily found out who did this, and of the three kids, only one came back to admit what he did, and appolgize.  That kids father offered to pay their share of the vet bills.  The parents of the other two kids went on camera, faces obscured of course, and acted like this was boys will be boys, and denied any responsibility.

With parents like this all too common- it's no wonder some kids turn out like they do.

Hardass??  No way.  

[Drewski]

Like the boys say:

Well a man come on the 6 o'clock news
Said somebody's been shot, somebody's been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didn't get too far yeah
They didn't get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses...

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
You can bet he'll set 'em down 'cause

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
We'll all meet back at the local saloon
We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses...

Drewski

[East_TX_Spa]

http://www.news-journal.com/news/content/news/stories/06222006newParadefolo.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the page if you want to read what some of the blithering idiots have to say about the criminals.

I posted my opinions under Chris O.

Terminator

[anne]

 Today in the local news was a story on 3 children, between the ages of 6 and 8 who entered the backyard of someone who lived on their block, and the used a rock the size of a cantelope and a stick to beat a small puppy to the point it had to go on a ventilator- the owners chose to disconnect and the puppy died.  

 .... The parents of the other two kids went on camera, faces obscured of course, and acted like this was boys will be boys, and denied any responsibility.

 With parents like this all too common- it's no wonder some kids turn out like they do.

  

That is more than just children having poor discipline and values- those kids are being abused at home- I'd put money on it. The link between animal abuse and child abuse is a pretty close one.

I'd not be surprised if the parents were only questioned, and those households were not inspected by anyone. Probably not provable enough to pursue. Guess what those kids will be doing as adults?

[Brewman]

 Chris-

You summed things up prety well, IMHO.
Looks to me like most of the posts that defended the criminals were from young and idealistic people who tend to think only from their own point of view; and from friends of the deceased- their emotions are running high, which is understandable.  
I remember being that age (but I wasn't a felon), and I tended to think from the same perspective- as I got older and responsible for myself and a family, reality sunk in and I realized that regardless of what SHOULD BE, what IS will always trumph.
Short and sweet- the kids brought this on themselves.
They WOULD be alive today had they simply chosen NOT to do something.  It's really easy to not do something.

Hope the homeowner eventually heals from this.  I can't imagine anything more traumatic to go thru, and I hope I'm never forced into a similar situation.  But if I am, bad guy goes down, If I have anything to do about it.
 

[Campsalot]

Yes there is a real lack of parenting today.  Living up here in sparsley populated ND (less than 650,000) you would think we would be somewhat immune to the idiots who parenting a lot of this countrys children.  Unfortunatley this is not the case.  I have a good friend who is a police chief and I about fell over when he told me how many calls the department gets from parents who want the police to parent their kid(s). I kid you not.  It is sick.  
When we first moved here I had an old 62 beat up chevy truck I used for dirt hauling, trips to the dump, etc.  One weekend we were away and upon returning we find the old truck had been spray painted and vandalized.  I called my Police Chief friend and they caught the juveniles who did it about 6 weeks later.  Since they were juveniles I was not allowed to get their names.  However, when the juvenile referee (yep, thats what they call him, aka judge) called me to ask what I thought would be fair monetary compensation I simply said none.  I told him I would prefer to have the kids come back to the truck and start wet sanding the paint off.  He listened and then asked the parents their thoughts.  Guess what?  The parents said oh no that is way too harsh!  We would prefer to pay.  So I get $750.00 for a crap truck that is literally worth $300.00.  That is the mentality of parents today.  Sheesh, the prisons are going to be full.  

[Ruby]

"Yes there is a real lack of parenting today"
"the old truck had been spray painted and vandalized."


That could’ve been my son  6 or 7 years ago.

This is a delicate subject and I will try to keep it short.  I have  kind of "been there, done that".  From the time we caught our son smoking pot for the first time in 8th grade to the day he turned 18, life was H E L L for us.  (incidentally, he has since told us it WAS his first time when we caught him).  A short list of what we dealt with during that time was... Failing grades, suspension from school for things ranging from stealing candy from the cafeteria, to attitude and calling a teacher a faggot, to stealing a felonies worth of goods from his employer.  There’s more, but you get the idea.  As parents we grounded, took away privileges, kept him from friends, slept outside his bedroom door to keep him from leaving, yelled, cried, told other parents, friends & neighbors to please let me know if my kid is misbehaving, attended parenting seminars, called looking for family therapy help (at the time we couldn't afford it and insurance didn't cover it.) I went so far as checking into a "wilderness camp" to straighten him out.(By the way, don't do this)  I even found a great support system through IVillage.com  "Troubled Teens". It consisted of other parents all over the country going through the same things, some much worse and it was my lifeline for 4 1/2 years.  

(Even though I don't post often, this has been my new home for the past 2 years) .

When he went to court for the felony charge, it was dropped to a misdemeanor and he had to pay restitution and was on probation.  It was a bitter sweet decision.  I was to the point of throwing the book at him-the judge decided not to.
He didn't have a job, we made him quit his new job.   We refused to pay for his mistake, so we decided our house needed a new coat of paint.   I gave him the ground rules: I will give you two weeks to get it done, I will pay 2000.00.  For each week past the deadline, I deduct 500.00.  Try to MAKE a 17 yr old paint a house.  For 4 weeks, it was "in your face” arguments.  It was the most emotional and stressful time in our entire lives, but we stuck it out (thanks to the TT board)  He ended up with 1000.00 of his restitution paid.  

Anyway, that was 4 years of my life that you now know about me.  My point is:  I have known parents who have done EVERYTHING right. (1 particular family has a Mom who teaches Sunday school, the Dad coached recreational sports, mom stays home all day (she does daycare so she could be home with her kids), Kids had chores, there was family time, etc)  Unfortunately, sometimes these kids have other ideas.  They become their own people and we need to make them face their own consequences. We can stand by for support, because after all, they are still our sons or daughters, but not resolve their problems.  It soon turns into “Let go, Let God” So we keep living with our heads held high and know that it's not always the fault of the parent and we did the best we could.

“Unfortunatley this is not the case.  I have a good friend who is a police chief and I about fell over when he told me how many calls the department gets from parents who want the police to parent their kid(s). I kid you not.  It is sick.”  

It’s too bad that your cop friend is so insensitive to family needs.  Whatever happened to “It takes a village to raise a child”?
Parents who call the police are not trying to get the police to parent their child.  It takes a damn strong and courageous parent to call the police. They are crying out for help because they can see the path their child is heading down.  Even if the cops were to come out and “scare the kid straight”, it might help.  At a certain age, kids don’t listen to parents warnings, don’t care about the discipline and they are invincible. They tell the parent “don’t worry about it” or even worse “ F off”.  I wish I had had the guts to call the cops and not be ridiculed or labeled.

Ok I’m off my soapbox now.  My son is almost 22 years old.  He still isn’t as successful as I dreamed he would be, but he’s living on his own and is learning how tough real life is.  I expect he will move back in (they usually do) and when he does, he will be welcomed with loving arms.   He’s learning through experience that he doesn’t make the rules, and when he breaks them, he gets caught and pays for it.  He’s a great kid, I love to spend time with him.  He’s loving and funny and he’s actually very intelligent.  He still hasn’t found his “niche” but he’s working on it.

I have been continuing to read the article that Term posted and the comments that were made.  It’s very sad, but the best thing the parents/grandparents could do for their children is to “Let go, Let God”. Support, but don’t protect.  The kids need to face the music.  Of course they were loving and funny and loved by many, but they made a bad decision.

Sorry this was so long believe me, it could’ve been longer.

[size=13][/size]

[wmccall]

http://www.news-journal.com/news/content/news/stories/06222006newParadefolo.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the page if you want to read what some of the blithering idiots have to say about the criminals.

I posted my opinions under Chris O.

Terminator

One person said they could always get a new house or posessions.  I'd shoot immediately if they threatened my family, pets, or big screen TV.  And by being in my house uninvited they are automatically a threat to all of the above.

[Chas]

One person said they could always get a new house or posessions.  I'd shoot immediately if they threatened my family, pets, or big screen TV.  And by being in my house uninvited they are automatically a threat to all of the above.

I agree. I wish our laws could be changed to reflect that: if somebody breaks and enters an occupied home, they have the intent to harm. Nobody is stupid enough to do so otherwise: we are not talking about toilet-papering the yard here folks, they violated the private home of people who were asleep inside. That is a felony, and I don't see how any sane person can stand around after the fact and judge whether or not there was intent to do bodily harm or 'just take a few things which could be easily replaced.'

One of the bleeding-heart posters said something about 'now a life has been lost,' as if that was the crime - well if I see people in my home I assume that unless I do something, all the lives I am responsible for will be lost as well. So why is it such a big deal for the homeowner to do exactly what the kids - by their very presence in the home - posed as a very real possibility?

Cons have a saying, "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Not elegant, but it is the boilded-down version of taking responsibility for your actions.

[East_TX_Spa]

One of the little criminal's sycophants sent me an illiterate e-mail telling me keep my opinions to myself.  I realize she is just a silly little girl and she is upset about her friend's demise, but I just have to wonder about some of his associate's who may try to give the homeowner more trouble.

That would seem to be an unwise choice since he is obviously capable of defending himself and his family.

Don't bring a shovel to a gunfight.

Terminator

[Brewman]

  Hopefully the idiots can think this thru and realize that if they go after that homeowner (or anyone else for that matter) that a similar fate may await them.
I suspect he will be rather alert for anything out of the ordinary for some time to come.  

You'd think that being from Texas they'd understand that you just don't go breaking and entering period, let alone in the middle of the night.  From what I've seen, you guys have more of a right to protect your homes than we do up here in the land where criminals have more rights than their victims.


 

[LtDan]

It’s too bad that your cop friend is so insensitive to family needs.  Whatever happened to “It takes a village to raise a child”?

Unfortunately the village can't teach your kids common sense, morality and values, that's the parents responsibility. Our society is not designed to have the village raise children, only the idiots.

I can't tell you how many times I've dealt with parents who claim they have done everything they can in raising their unruly/criminally inclined/delinquent/ etc..... child. The vast majority of the time you can tell them exactly how they are enabling the behavior (take away the car they are driving, stop giving them the money they are buying drugs with, keep the idiots they are hanging around with and learning from away, apply corporal punishment (kick their ass when needed), actually get involved at school with their teachers, I can go on for an hour). No one likes to admit they have dorked up their kids by enabling, easier to blame everyone else.

I've gone to many calls where parents want us to do the scared straight gig. The ultimate authority children should respect is the parents, if their kids don't respect them, why would they give a crap about what a stranger in a blue uniform has to say. They usually don't, just wind up hating cops even more. It would be better if people wouldn't use the police to scare kids into behaving, but maybe teach them that they can talk to an officer about their issues, we can provide a no BS picture of where they are heading.

The homeowner was absolutely correct in his response. If anyone believes these kids went from altar boys to doing home invasions in one evening they are kidding themselves.


That's my soapbox.

[Brewman]

 Blaming society for criminal behavior is the ultimate in ducking responsiblity.

Place the blame where it lies- on the actor.

Nobody is "forced" into a life of crime.  That's just an excuse for the criminal element to justify their illegal activities.
No circumstances I can think of justify anyone taking what belongs to someone else.  

I'm gainfully employed, I pay my taxes, I obey the law, I provide food, clothing and shelter to my family, I donate money to charaties, I volunteer my time as a Deputy Reserve, etc....
Most of the other people I know are similar.  We're all doing our thing to be productive members of our community.
Together we are make up "society".  I can't think of a damn thing we've done that justifies the criminal behavior of those in my community.