ozonaters?

[HotTubMan]

Once the water leaves the injector, or "mixing" chamber for that matter, the little bubbles of ozone quickly rise to the top of the pipe, leaving a pocket of air in the top of the pipe............ kinda like the pocket of air above the water of a spa and beneath the cover  

So would you agree that a second mixing chamber like the one found in a D-1(and other brands, I just know the D-1 sys better) would be beneficial?

[empolgation]

A longer pipe gives you.................................. just a longer pocket of ozonated air sitting on top of a longer pipe full of water.

*raising hand and waving it in the pocket of ozonated air*

so I guess a reasonable question would be... is there a benefit acheived from the ozone's contact with the surface of the moving water in the pipe?  and could there be a detriment to the ozone contact with the pipe?

I am still a little unclear as to how the ozone becomes aqueous but I continue to wonder what's the difference between tiny ozone bubbles from an injector and ozone pockets in a pipe (aside from the obvious difference in surface area ratio)? Seems to me if you believe that one has a benefit than the other must as well, albeit most likely quantifiably less.

Of course without that "properly conducted, peer reviewed study" this is only food for the monster.

An often times overlooked "benefit" of ozone is that it can activate bromine.

[empolgation]

So would you agree that a second mixing chamber like the one found in a D-1(and other brands, I just know the D-1 sys better) would be beneficial?

What is that second mixing chamber? Another injector? Some more pipe? a...?

[hottubber]

One thing about the UV and Corona discharge...

Marquis does use a UV....but unlike I think most or perhaps even all UV types....It  uses a Plasma cell instead of a ballast...it is the ballast that fails and with each use produces less and less ozone....by using the Plasma cell they have found that it puts out the same amount ozone from day one to day 2000 ( about 7 years ) in their testing....and requires no maintenance

Just like my x, puts out for 7 years, now nothing...

[Chas]

Well, just so you know: HotSpring uses the plasma type generator, that's the one which lasts about ten years and needs no care.

They also use a simple flex tube with a gentle spiral built into it. This tends to keep the water moving in such a way that the bubbles don't work themselves to the top as much. How much? I haven't shoved a mini cam into the pipe to observe it in operation, but it does spew forth bubbles which are still tiny after going through about twelve feet of 'contact chamber,' indicating that it does work as planned.

Finally, I have learned by first-hand experience that some people can tell when their ozone system is suddenly disconnected or stops operating, and that tells me that most folks can tell a difference. How? Perhaps they smell it, perhaps they notice needing more chlorine than usual, or perhaps the thing goes completely cloudy on them and they check into it.

I had a tub in my backyard for over half a year - and we found out it never had the ozone generator installed. The bubbles were there because the injector got installed, but they were just air. I only had one time the tub 'went south' during that time, but I have years of experience and I think I was putting in more dichlor as needed to compensate without really knowing it. I did have records which showed I took home more dichlor than the year before, but lots of other things could account for that.

But the cover and pillows were in far better shape that my floor models which had ozone for the same amount of time.

All that to say this: a good ozone system does make it easier to own your tub. It is not a must, but it can give you more fudge factor in applying sanitizer because it does oxidize some of the organic matter so the sanitizer doesn't have to. And on a tub with constant circulation, it goes in all the time. This is really a nice backup for vacation time.

[Mendocino101]

Well, just so you know: HotSpring uses the plasma type generator, that's the one which lasts about ten years and needs no care.

.

Chas....

Where does the generator come into play and what is its function...

[empolgation]

Finally, I have learned by first-hand experience that some people can tell when their ozone system is suddenly disconnected or stops operating, and that tells me that most folks can tell a difference. How? Perhaps they smell it, perhaps they notice needing more chlorine than usual, or perhaps the thing goes completely cloudy on them and they check into it.

I am one of those people. I had a cloudy tub and could not figure out why....  After lots of troubleshooting I found that the ozonator was not working (plasma style was not lighting up). I got the ozonator working... a little more than a day later water was no longer cloudy.

[Chas]

The Generator is the electric/electronic item which produces the ozone. There are a few types in common use: Ultra Violet (or UV), CD and Plasma. The UV has a light bulb which does the work, and only lasts about two or three years. It may still light up, but should be replaced at that time.

The CD (Corona Discharge) uses a solid-state electronic system to create a corona (high voltage) discharge which creates the ozone - just like a lightning storm can and does. The less-expensive CD units have a small chip or chamber which needs to be replaced about 9000 hours of operation - once a year if run constantly. The Plasma units - or high end CD units for that matter - utilize a much larger chamber and a much larger power supply. As a result, they can go ten years without changing anything. Once they stop working, you get a new one. They are usually the most expensive of the options.

Once the Ozone is generated, it must be mixed into the water somehow. Most tubs seem to use an injector - the most common injector is made by Mazzei. The injector is a venturi which uses the water movement to create a vacuuum which draws the ozone into the waterstream. Other tub makers put a small hydro jet or designate one of the regular spa jets and use the air inlet to draw the ozone into the tub, but there is a reason the Mazzei system works better and I'll get to it next:

Mixing chamber. This can be anything from a long flexible tube (ten to twelve feet long, wrapped around the foot area or somehow hidden in the insulated part of the tub) to a convoluted system of tanks and chambers which all have one job: extend the amount of time the ozone and the water are in contact. Because of this, some of them are called "contact chambers."

The mixing or contact chamber is a must because the ozone will simply escape ('gas off') and do no good whatsoever if it is not forced into contact with the water for as long as possible. If the ozone generator puts out a lot of ozone, and it is allowed to simply 'gas off,' it will not help with water chemistry, but will burn the underside of the cover and/or pillows. It can also bother some people's lungs if it creates a big ozone cloud above the water.

So choose your tub carefully, but don't let this system be a deciding factor. You can run a tub quite will without an ozone system, and an ozone system is not a free ride: you still need to manage your pH and TA, and you must keep a small residual of sanitizer in the water, or at least do regular shocks with a sanitizer and keep MPS or similar going in all the time.

But if you are looking a tub, and want to know if the ozone system is going to make a difference or not, find out if it is CD or UV. If UV - pass. If CD, find out if it needs to have the chip or chamber changed every year. If so, pass - or ask your dealer to include this service for the first two years. Ask about the contact chamber - if it simply blows the ozone into the tub from a mini-jet or regular jet, pass. If it has any type of contact chamber, you're good to go.

[HotTubMan]

What is that second mixing chamber? Another injector? Some more pipe? a...?

Ill bring the camera into work this weekend. I tried and I just cant describe it well. We have D-1's UltraPure display in the store. With that tool I can describe it to you.

[Mendocino101]

The Generator is the electric/electronic item which produces the ozone. There are a few types in common use: Ultra Violet (or UV), CD and Plasma. The UV has a light bulb which does the work, and only lasts about two or three years. It may still light up, but should be replaced at that time.

.

Chas...

there are those who would differ with you and suggest that it is not the bulb that goes out in the UV type but it is in fact the ballast....that the bulbs will last longer than 7 years with no loss in ability to produce ozone.....when used in conjunction with a plasma cell....

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

So would you agree that a second mixing chamber like the one found in a D-1(and other brands, I just know the D-1 sys better) would be beneficial?

I don't really know... as I say, show me real test results. At 104 degrees, ozone gas breaks down in what? 2 seconds? What about a 10' mixing chamber?

As I understand it, you really only get good absorption of ozone into water if it's injected at 2 atmospheres of pressure.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

"is there a benefit achieved from the ozone's contact with the surface of the moving water in the pipe?"

Yes, but it's SO small it's unmeasurable...... so it might as well be "no"

"and could there be a detriment to the ozone contact with the pipe?"

Possibly, but I think the rest of the spa will be long gone before the effects would be noticeable.

"I am still a little unclear as to how the ozone becomes aqueous"

Just like any gas, under the right conditions it's absorbed into the liquid. Kinda like oxygen into water so fish can survive.

" but I continue to wonder what's the difference between tiny ozone bubbles from an injector and ozone pockets in a pipe (aside from the obvious difference in surface area ratio)?"

It's the surface ration. The tinyer the bubbles the greater the absorption capability.

"An often times overlooked "benefit" of ozone is that it can activate bromine."

ABSOLUTELY!

[empolgation]

Chas... a fabulous review of spa ozonation - thanks!

HTM... much obliged for a photo, I've been trying to get a better understanding of D1's system for a while know.

[empolgation]

"is there a benefit achieved from the ozone's contact with the surface of the moving water in the pipe?"

Yes, but it's SO small it's unmeasurable...... so it might as well be "no"

I'll wait to peruse the "properly conducted, peer reviewed study" before I confer

"I am still a little unclear as to how the ozone becomes aqueous"

Just like any gas, under the right aonditimns it's absorbed into the liquid. Kinda like oxygen into water so fish can survive.

That's about what I know although oxygen can easily be absorbed in water at 1 atm or less. I am questioning ozone's ability to oxidize upon being trapped in a "pocket of ozonated air", of unknown pressure, for a long (possibly indefinite) period of time compared to being injected (likely at 2 atm?) and off-gas relatively shortly thereafter.


Many thanks to y'all for sharing your ozone knowledge, every bit helps to gain a better understanding of it's role in spatopia!

[drewdad]

WEIRD QUESTION.....
stopped in a d-1 dealer today, and on the topic of ozonaters, this guy says that d-1 has the best type, a uv???
he says some of the lower end models have the "cd" ozonaters in them, but overall d-1 has more power and better ozonation than any one else.
am i not understanding most of the threads in this post, or is this dealer delusional??
overall seems to be nice product, but a little pricey....($9-12K) i have tested several brands now and am pretty much set on the caldera niagra, but wanted to be sure before spending this kind of money.
i have learned alot of the right questons to ask here and i appriciate the input alot
same store has la west tubs also. like the looks of the H.E.E.T model but havent seen much about them here.
where(approx) does la west fit into the food chain as far as quality? any one??