hydropool spas

[hoss]

I am new to the tub game and your form is a great help.. I have been asking around for suggestions and my friends all have been great.. Tonight I went and wet tested a hydropool it was great and the bottom cleaning seems to be a great selling point for me. I am also going to check out alot more tubs.. I am interested in the Artic and also I have  heard many good things about Sundance.. Any help would be appreciated...

[Bubbles]

Doesn't every swimming pool have that? Sounds like it's been done for years with success to me.
Hmmmm... you sound like a dealer that sells against them? Not an accurate way to get good advice in my book.

[wmccall]

We sell 100-120 spas per year and 5-10 spa vacs per year.......

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I don't think he was trying to hide that fact Bubbles, but it doesn't dimish the validity of his opinion in anyway.

[Bubbles]

I don't think he was trying to hide that fact Bubbles, but it doesn't dimish the validity of his opinion in anyway.

No, you are correct. What is does do is point out the incorrect observation that nobody has done this when in fact, it is done every day. I believe one other company also does this with a similar design.

Does it hurt the operation of the spa? What are the negatives to it HTM?

I would like to see one operate myself before making this judgement call. Have you done so HTM?

I'm sure this won't diminish the validity of MY opinion right? I think you'll find every post on this forum is just that so writing it out seems a bit of a moot point doesn't it?

[wmccall]

No, you are correct. What is does do is point out the incorrect observation that nobody has done this when in fact, it is done every day.

What other hot tub does it?  To me pools and spas are two different animals.  

[goingwarp]

I have had a hydropool since oct  it has worked out really well no problems at all, as for the 100% cleaning system I can say that this does work. My cousin just purchased a hotsprings nice tub but they also had to get a vac to get out the sand etc on the bottom (not me). Now I think if your tub is on a deck and the  area around the tub  is really clean and you do not track anything into the tub then I guess you will not need a vac or the hydropool 100% cleaning system.

[Chas]

What is does do is point out the incorrect observation that nobody has done this when in fact, it is done every day.

No, there simply are no major name-brand tubs with this feature. The comparison to pools is flawed:

Pools are uncovered. Spas are covered.

Sand and grit only rarely get into a spa, pools are magnets for leaves, sand/grit, bugs, dirt and debris.

Spas are up to about three feet deep. Pools are up to 12 feet deep, most home pools are about 8 feet deep - you only walk on the bottom in the shallow end. You have to really work to clean the bottom of the deep end.  

Many pools are now being built without a bottom drain because they offer no real benefit, and can pose a safety problem if not properly covered.

[Bubbles]

Not to disagree with the SPA GOD or anything but there are some distinct flaws in your opinion. Which, by the way, I am assuming it was.

A major brand is determined by whom? You? Though you seem to have this holier than thou attitude here, believe it or not, there are other spas besides Hotspring out there.

Pools can be uncovered though many have pool covers to prevent debris from entering. When in use, both pools and spas have the cover off allowing not only dust, leaves and debris, but also anything that may be brought into the water by the users. Not to mention that 1 person in a spa is equivalent to 50 in a pool.

{Sand and grit only rarely get into a spa, pools are magnets for leaves, sand/grit, bugs, dirt and debris.}

Makes me wonder how a body of water varying in volume can attract debris at a varied rate? You might want to check your pseudo science on that one. Does the way in which the spa or pool is placed and the makeup of the installation not make a significant difference in just how much outside debris enters the body of water? Yeh...I thought so too.

You only walk in the shallow end? Interesting thought but any debris which enters a body water with movement can and will allow that debris to move about within the body of water resulting in sand and grit throughout. This is the reason pool owners don't just vacuum the shallow end of their pools. Nobody has to "really work" at cleaning the deep end. Automatic cleaners do the job easily and effortlessly and are becoming more popular every year. Even without them, it isn't that difficult though obviously still required, right?

As I haven't seen this feature operate in a spa, I'm not defending the maker; I'm merely pointing out that this feature has merit. Of course those of you with a sale to make won't pony up and say there's merit to it and I really didn't expect anything less from you.

I know it's not "cool" to go against a regular here and I'm sure I'll get slammed but sometimes just being a regular doesn't make you Mr. Know-it-all. I'm sure you think differently as we can tell.

[stabone]

The main part of my business is new pool construction, and main drains make a huge difference in keeping debris from building up in pools. Bottom drains are safe when piped to code, pools with automatic covers are totally sealed. But on the whole, pools being uncovered makes keeping a pool clean and water chemistry much more difficult than a spa.

[Chas]

Not to disagree with the SPA GOD

Please leave the personal attack out. Thanks.

{Sand and grit only rarely get into a spa, pools are magnets for leaves, sand/grit, bugs, dirt and debris.}

Makes me wonder how a body of water varying in volume can attract debris at a varied rate? You might want to check your pseudo science on that one.

My point is that a spa is covered 99% of the time, and most pools are not. That's a simple enough statement, I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear.

A covered spa is not likely to have stuff blow into it. As a ten-year veteren of pool service, I think it's safe to say that pools (obviously not covered ones) are a magnet for dirt, leaves, bugs etc. Talk to your pool man: he's very busy the days following a strong wind.

You only walk in the shallow end?

Yeah, sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm under six feet tall, and don't spend a lot of time walking on pool bottoms once the water depth is over my head. I only mention this for comparison: you generally do have to walk on all parts of the bottom of a spa just getting in and out or moving from seat to seat. As a result, if having a gritty bottom was that big of a deal, more tub makers would have this feature. There is nothing wrong with this feature, I have in no way said or implied that it makes the tub less desireable, I just don't see it as that important. You said I wouldn't allow that it has merit: I will. The idea has merit. You simply infered that because pools have a bottom drain spas should have them, and I brought up the obvious differences between spas and pools.

Of course those of you with a sale to make won't pony up and say there's merit to it and I really didn't expect anything less from you.

I don't sell over the Internet, can't.  I don't 'have a sale to make.' I simply pointed out that a pool is usually not covered, and a spa is usually covered.

I'm sorry if I somehow touched a nerve, I'm not your enemy.

[Bubbles]

Please leave the personal attack out. Thanks.

That's not an attack. It is a term of endearment.

My point is that a spa is covered 99% of the time, and most pools are not. That's a simple enough statement, I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear.

It was a simple statement and it was very clear. I just didn't agree if that's OK.

A covered spa is not likely to have stuff blow into it. As a ten-year veteren of pool service, I think it's safe to say that pools (obviously not covered ones) are a magnet for dirt, leaves, bugs etc. Talk to your pool man: he's very busy the days following a strong wind.

As much as I try to understand this comment, the common sense of it is that both pools and spas are susceptible to debris entering and not all of it is skimmed from the surface. I do agree that uncovered pools have a larger issue, but I believe that it is relative to the volume of water as far as how it effects that volume. You chose to skim past my comment on how 1 person in a spa is equivalent to 50 in a pool. Pools have much larger filters and are designed in a way to deal with larger amounts of debris. Very simple concept that I'm sorry I didn't make more clear. And for the record, I agree with stabone in that main drains play a critical part of filtration of a pool. Does it work the same way in a spa? Who knows...I don't own one nor have I seen one but to suggest that it's a useless feature is laughable. You just don't sell it. I understand that.

Yeah, sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm under six feet tall, and don't spend a lot of time walking on pool bottoms once the water depth is over my head. I only mention this for comparison: you generally do have to walk on all parts of the bottom of a spa just getting in and out or moving from seat to seat.

Obviously your editing made it difficult to comprehend my answer. Debris isn't placed by just stepping on an area of the pool or spa. It is brought in and distributed throughout the body of water. Some floats and some will sink. I think most will agree with me here that it isn’t left as a footprint of debris.

As a result, if having a gritty bottom was that big of a deal, more tub makers would have this feature. There is nothing wrong with this feature, I have in no way said or implied that it makes the tub less desireable, I just don't see it as that important.

Why are thousands of spa vacs sold annually? Maybe people just find them attractive sitting beside their spas?

I don't sell over the Internet, can't.  I don't 'have a sale to make.' I simply pointed out that a pool is usually not covered, and a spa is usually covered.

I'm sorry if I somehow touched a nerve, I'm not your enemy.

No, you don't physically "sell" over the interent but decisions are made on whether or not to purchase based on information gathered here so yes...indirectly you DO sell here as everyone else does.

Not a nerve Chas, but I pop in periodically and usually I see good info but sometimes it's just a sales guy trying to combat any feature they don't promote with their own line of spas. I look forward to the day when I see a salesperson give a positive comment on a feature that isn't on their own line. I guess some people just aren't that open to alternate concepts. I guess Hotspring should be thankful you aren't head of new development.

Have a Happy New Year!

[Chas]

That's not an attack. It is a term of endearment.

Thanks for the effort, but it is not being received as such. "Chas" is fine.

It was a simple statement and it was very clear. I just didn't agree if that's OK.

Yes - absolutely. But I'm curious: Does this mean that where you live spas are not generally covered? I'm not making any kind of hidden comment, I'm just asking, and my reason for asking is this:

I'm in SoCal, and most spas are covered most of the time, while most pools are uncovered most of the time. Every Spa I sell goes out with an insulated cover which is closed 99% percent of the time. As an example, when I sold my pool-service business several years ago I had close to 100 pools on regular service. Three of them had covers. I had about a dozen spas on service, all of those were covered, with the exception of three or four in-ground spas in commercial complexes: those were not covered, and they got junk in them proportional to their size just as the pool sitting next to them did. We also basically treated them as small pools: vacuuming the bottom or brushing them just like a pool. And you better believe a bottom drain came in handy when brushing: we would shuttle the valves and plug off the skimmers so the system would draw from the drain and then we would carefully brush the bottom of the pool/spa towards that drain where the stuff would go directly into the filtration system.

But as I said, those were basically 'small pools,' and the covered spas rarely had any grit in the bottoms. We had a bunch of spas at the beach, and we found that a simple vac was the most effective way to get the sand out of the bottom. If they had been equipped with a bottom suction system, I would not have pushed the sand into it. I would not want to load up the filter with the stuff only have to pull the filter immediately and clean it out a second time. I used a simple siphon tube which got the sand out of the tub entirely. This is what I set up our beach-dwelling customers with and it works just fine.

As much as I try to understand this comment, the common sense of it is that both pools and spas are susceptible to debris entering and not all of it is skimmed from the surface.

Agreed: with the note that pools sit there all day collecting stuff while a spa has about ten or fifteen minute per evening when stuff can hit the water or be tracked in. And around here, the winds die down in the evening, so there is less chance of stuff blowing in.

You chose to skim past my comment on how 1 person in a spa is equivalent to 50 in a pool.

"Skim past" is a hoot - great play on words. True, I didn't go there because it seemed to be a great start to another topic. But what you say is true - a couple in a spa is roughly equivalant to several dozen in a pool. I just don't see this relating to bottom drains.

Pools have much larger filters

Not around here. I would say that most of the pools I have serviced, repaired or installed have had something around a 50 square foot DE filter, a 75 square foot cartridge filter, or a 3 square foot sand filter. The larger the pool, the larger the filter, of course. I had some commercial pools with twin and even triple systems: each system had a 60 square foot DE filter, some larger. By comparison, a brand new Vista spa from HotSpring has 300 square feet of cartridge filtration, and does a fine job. An easy mistake is to compare the physical size of the equipment: a 60 square-foot pool filter is a self-contained device of large proportions. Most spas have filters built-in in a much more compact arrangement - but the surface area (the working area) of spa filters is generally about the same or larger than a pool's.

and are designed in a way to deal with larger amounts of debris.

Yes, and one would assume that is because they sit open most of the time??

And for the record, I agree with stabone in that main drains play a critical part of filtration of a pool.

The safety issue is only one reason bottom drains are disappearing from pools built here in SoCal in recent years. The other reason is the proliferation of suction-type cleaners which move around the bottom keeping stuff picked up. They amount to a 'moving bottom drain' in my opinion, and NSPI and others seem to agree. Obviously these can't be used in spas - but I don't find that a problem.

Does it work the same way in a spa? Who knows...I don't own one nor have I seen one but to suggest that it's a useless feature is laughable.

I didn't. I do suggest it is not a feature upon which a buying decision should be made. Since most spas sit covered most of the time, and it's not a big job to keep stuff out or remove it once it gets in, and since I don't think putting grit through the pumps or into the filter of a spa is a great idea, I'm not worried that more spas don't have this feature.

Why are thousands of spa vacs sold annually? Maybe people just find them attractive sitting beside their spas?

Well, they are pretty nice-looking things...
but they do a different job. They remove grit completely from a spa without putting it into the pumps and/or filters. And in my experience, they sit there largely unused except for rare occasions.

[Bubbles]

Thanks Chas. We are debating a feature that may have appeal to many other geographical locations than just SoCal. I understand you are limited to your observations given your location.

I would certainly consider this in my next purchase and I find it interesting. With all the fluff (another play on words) in spas nowadays, it's somewhat refreshing to see this sort of thought going into the design. The question is; does it work? Goingwarp believes so and he has far more knowledge with it than you or I.

[bobhol]

I purchased a Hydropool Serenity 6000 (see review) last October.Iwas very serious about the HYDROPOOL 575 with the self cleaning floor filter. My take on it was as well as pulling from the floor it also channelled a lot more water thru the filter. My dilemma was the better filtration system and less maintenance or more tub(size wise) in their Serenity line with a standard filter set up. If my budget would have allowed it ,I would have gone with the Hydropool 575,but I am very happy with the Serenity line.I am sure I am cleaning my filter more often,but I have a routine(gotten from info on this forum) that works for me. BTW Chas in Canada my pool is covered unless i am using it ,to keep the heat in. I use a Kreepy vac to keep it clean.This is the greatest forum for information on the net but sometimes the small points get blown out of proportion and the original questions don't get answered. I get  advice I can use every time I visit..... bobhol

[stabone]

Is someone from Hydropool on here, I would like to see how that works, it sounds pretty awesome. I don't think it would be a must have on a spa, but neither are radios, tv's etc. And they seem to sell, so as an upgrade option it sounds pretty cool to me!!