Arctic Tubs

[Steve]

Yes, I understand the difference....the point I'm trying to make is that is that a statement like that made by an Arctic member would be ripped to shreads...even it was backed by evidence. IMO, that is how this forum seems to work.

I disagree cf. I think you'll notice that this forum operates quite well for the most part. It's only when unsubstanciated claims of superiority are brought forward that it tends to ruffle feathers. I'm not going back through this entire thread but certainly you can see the general approach of the Arctic salesperson should you care to take the time.

Though we've all said things in anger and frustration at times on this forum, I hope that you aren't defending the manner in which Arctic has been presented and represented here?

If I was the Rep for Arctic, I would have set up a conference call months ago to defuse this type of posting. It serves no good for the forum or your product.

Steve

[Spatech_tuo]

Yes, I understand the difference....the point I'm trying to make is that is that a statement like that made by an Arctic member would be ripped to shreads...even it was backed by evidence. IMO, that is how this forum seems to work.

Its difficult to take you seriously when you proclaim that the "CFL rules".

[Steve]

 I just think it is so funny that you guys, change your story on insulation, and how much is needed to properly insulate, 4 to 5 inches is not enough to retain heat around the perimeter and floor, and yet is is overkill for a cover.
   My family has been in the plumbing and construction business for over 30 years, and in the pool and spa business for 19.  We service all brands of spas, and pools.  
    1st, describe the insulation design, of an Arctic, and what is false in how it is presented.
  

I'd like some clarification on a couple points if you don't mind.

First, do you agree with the manner in which it is presented when Arctic promotes heating without a heater? Do you think it's somewhat misleading or do you find it accurate?

Is the thickness of a cover directly realted to it's energy efficiency? Does the strength of the cover cause the cover to be too heavy for an average lady to manipulate? (cause you know they like doing that... ) Just kidding ladies...love ya!

On average, what is the total amount of time a pump runs in a 24 hour period on an Arctic spa? Do you personally consider Arctic to be a thermally closed unit?
Please name 3 manufacturers that don't require the addition of foam or the cabinet to support the structure.

We'll start there. Thanks...

Steve
Oh... and I believe Stuart has some unanswered questions if I'm correct. Take your time stabone. We're going for quality of answers and not speed of reply.

[Steve]

Its difficult to take you seriously when you proclaim that the "CFL rules".

HEY .

Keep in mind that we only require 3 downs and you guys need 4 to move the ball 10 yards. I mean...what's that about?  

Steve

[cflrules]

Its difficult to take you seriously when you proclaim that the "CFL rules".

Oh I see. Didn't realize my opinion on professional football would have an impact on fellow posters opinions on my views.....

Tough crowd.

[stabone]

 First of all, I don't think anyone has bought an Arctic, thinking that it is not equipt with a heater. Nor have I heard anyone from Arctic claiming that we don't use heaters. Only, by recovering heat from the equipment, and not blocking it away from the water by insulation, we are able to use the surface area of the whole shell to transfer that heat towards the water. Because of this we can seal the air space, unlike other TP design that needs to vent the air space, because the heat from the equipment is trapt by insulation on both the shell and cabinet. If this type of insulation that recovers more waste heat, makes for an overall more effecient tub, is obviously still up for debate. I believe it is, some believe in other types that is fine.  What I don't like being accused is falsely presenting my product, if outhers do, I have no control of that, I do not. I know that hydrospa uses wood for extra support.  Why don't you answer some of the questions I asked Ed, since you thought his misinformed and  false statements were so well thought out and accurate.  
  I have never had any customer feed back with trouble opening a cover,  most try out the cover and lifter, while shopping.  My mom is little, and takes the cover on and off all the time, same for my sister and girlfriend.
  Steve do you think that an Arctic cabinet is not sealed?  Go ahead and get to your point about the other manufactures,  that use self supporting  hulls??
   I set filter cylces, on my tubs for 2hrs at a time, 4 times a day. 8 hours total.
 
 

[Steve]

First of all, I don't think anyone has bought an Arctic, thinking that it is not equipt with a heater. Nor have I heard anyone from Arctic claiming that we don't use heaters.

Nor did I say say that Arctic doesn't have heaters. What I did say is that Arctic PROMOTES their spas in a way which gives the impression that these spas heat without the heaters and do you find that misleading in any way?

Only, by recovering heat from the equipment, and not blocking it away from the water by insulation, we are able to use the surface area of the whole shell to transfer that heat towards the water. Because of this we can seal the air space, unlike other TP design that needs to vent the air space, because the heat from the equipment is trapt by insulation on both the shell and cabinet.

So are you saying that your cabinets are 100% sealed and air tight like a thermal pane window? I just want to be sure I'm understanding you correctly.

I have never had any customer feed back with trouble opening a cover,  most try out the cover and lifter, while shopping.  My mom is little, and takes the cover on and off all the time, some for my sister and girlfriend.

Let me ask you this; what is the total weight of this cover?

Steve do you think that an Arctic cabinet is not sealed?

I believe that no one can thermlly close a spa 100%. Not even Arctic. If a blower is installed, where does this air come from? When introducing air via the venturis from the jets, where is that air coming from? Would the spa not implode if it was a 100% thermally closed unit in these situations? Yes...it would and that's why I believe they are not sealed in the way they would need to be to give the type of beneift you are speaking of.

 Go ahead and get to your point about the other manufactures,  that use self supporting  hulls??

There was no "point" to be made other than to see if you think Arctic is the only manufacturer built this way. I also wanted to know if you could name others that do offer this to determine your level of understanding in the spa industry.

I set filter cylces, on my tubs for 2hrs at a time, 4 times a day. 8 hours total.

OK..now we're getting somewhere. So in this single thermal pane design, the pumps are running on low speed 8 hours per day. Would this then not leave 16 hours a day, every day, where the pumps are generating NO heat at all? At -35C, what is preventing this cabinet (which is not a thermally closed ) from letting that ambient temperature in the cabinet? Understanding that you are speaking of induction of heat between the body of water through the shell composite into the dead air space, wouldn't this then result in temperature loss in that body of water if that air space is cooler than the body of water?

Steve
 
 

[stabone]

  Steve, it is so hard to type all the technical info you want, because all you want to do is try to twist things, I would be more than happy to talk with you. I will send you a personal message.

[Steve]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[stabone]

At -35 what tub is not going to loose temp, if the tub needs to heat, it does just like any other tub.  We can type all night and not get any where. It is a different way to insulate than most thermal panel spas that use insulation on the shells.  If you don't think it is better than other ways to insulate a tub, that iis fine. I believe in this method, it makes sense to me. FF makes good sense to some people.  My question to you is what do you think is false.  Not if you think it is more energy efficient??

[Steve]

I believe both have merit and inherited problems.

What I don't believe in is promoting beyond reality.

My choice would be a spa that incorporates the best of both worlds (Full foam and Thermal pane). Hence...HYDROPOOL!!

Steve

[stabone]

 Alot of people don't know this, but the water in an Arctic turns to gold, any woman that gets into one transforms into a supermodel, and they clean your house while you are at work!!!
  I just wanted to tone it down a little, talk with you later Steve.  
 

[ebirrane]

Alot of people don't know this, but the water in an Arctic turns to gold, any woman that gets into one transforms into a supermodel, and they clean your house while you are at work!!!
   I just wanted to tone it down a little, talk with you later Steve.  
  

At least you start to say things which have a greater probability of being true.

Look, my post made all the arctic guys (meaning... you) throw a posting tantrum. Deep apologies.

How about this, address the points and you'll change my mind and maybe other people's minds.  

Or, address points made to you in other threads too.  

Or, make any technical point whatsoever.

Or... not, as the tantrums do add some entertainment.

-Ed

[cflrules]

 I'm still miffed about the CFL comment.  

[Steve]

I'm still miffed about the CFL comment.  

LMAO!